Flathead 6 to Flathead V8 swap?

[Sniper]

18 minutes ago, Doug&Deb said:

Just to add one more consideration. I belong to several Facebook flathead 6 groups and although they are for any vehicle powered by a flathead 6 there are far more Mopar owners. Our engines are much easier to use as daily drivers than most others. 

 

One has to wonder if that is because, as a percentage, the MoPar 's survived the year better?

[kencombs]

I made the remark about cracks in Ford flathead V8s because I distinctly remember a past experience.   I picked up a nice 53 Ford, flathead 8 with lots of cracks and a Fordomatic in need of a rebuild.   So, off to Dad's salvage to find parts to fix,  stick shift stuff, ( no fun at all the pull all those pieces from the auto and stick car and reinstall in the survivor), then the search for a block.   No impact wrench then, just breaker bar, sockets and ratchet.   24 bolts per side, 48 per engine and a total of 24 blocks before finding one not cracked between valve seats or seat to cylinder wall.   And that one had a scar from a slipped wrist pin that had to be sleeved.   Made a really slick old

Ford, but I'll never forget removing 1152 bolts in one day!

[Los_Control]

Thats exactly how they are today .... takes 10 blocks to find one worth rebuilding ..... if you are lucky. The oil pan rails are notorious for cracking , between the valves and cylinders .... I have seen them crack internally and leak coolant out of the exhaust ..... All casting flaws.

They just had a poor casting process and the engines sucked.

 

Yet they are still a iconic engine for a early hot rod, in demand for a good block .... Since there is so few of them available.

 

The guy I bought my engine from knew this, He was asking $300 for a unknown core, I offered $75 for scrap value and he sold it to me. He had no prospects and already moved it outside to the iron pile.     He had no interest in investigating, he was doing a modern drive line swap in his Grandpas 1951 Ford 1/2 ton.

 

I'm just saying, I rolled the dice buying this motor, I paid scrap prices for it .... so far it looks really really good ... I do not need a machine shop, just needs to be cleaned up, painted & put back together. ....... Grandpa was a farmer. He needed his truck when he needed it. He over revved it and spun a rod bearing.

Then he had a shop rebuild it, turned the crank but no wear on the cylinders .... Stock bore & pistons, new rings and some vale work ..... He drove it for awhile and the fuel pump gave out ...... Just when he needed it most his truck broke down again. ..... He made a half hearted attempt to fix it ... He pulled the fuel pump off then replaced the truck with a newer model and the rebuilt low mile Ford engine sat in the barn for decades. .... I bought the motor for scrap prices ..... If only there was a Cinderella the story would be complete.

 

 

[kencombs]

1 hour ago, Los_Control said:

Thats exactly how they are today .... takes 10 blocks to find one worth rebuilding ..... if you are lucky. The oil pan rails are notorious for cracking , between the valves and cylinders .... I have seen them crack internally and leak coolant out of the exhaust ..... All casting flaws.

They just had a poor casting process and the engines sucked.

 

Yet they are still a iconic engine for a early hot rod, in demand for a good block .... Since there is so few of them available.

 

The guy I bought my engine from knew this, He was asking $300 for a unknown core, I offered $75 for scrap value and he sold it to me. He had no prospects and already moved it outside to the iron pile.     He had no interest in investigating, he was doing a modern drive line swap in his Grandpas 1951 Ford 1/2 ton.

 

I'm just saying, I rolled the dice buying this motor, I paid scrap prices for it .... so far it looks really really good ... I do not need a machine shop, just needs to be cleaned up, painted & put back together. ....... Grandpa was a farmer. He needed his truck when he needed it. He over revved it and spun a rod bearing.

Then he had a shop rebuild it, turned the crank but no wear on the cylinders .... Stock bore & pistons, new rings and some vale work ..... He drove it for awhile and the fuel pump gave out ...... Just when he needed it most his truck broke down again. ..... He made a half hearted attempt to fix it ... He pulled the fuel pump off then replaced the truck with a newer model and the rebuilt low mile Ford engine sat in the barn for decades. .... I bought the motor for scrap prices ..... If only there was a Cinderella the story would be complete.

 

 

IME, almost all of the cracks are due to freeze or overheating, especially the valve to valve or valve to cylinder.   That shared exhaust passage gets really hot with the coolant gets low.  Pan rail cracks happen when the water freezes. 

[Los_Control]

11 minutes ago, kencombs said:

IME, almost all of the cracks are due to freeze or overheating, especially the valve to valve or valve to cylinder.   That shared exhaust passage gets really hot with the coolant gets low.  Pan rail cracks happen when the water freezes. 

I will disagree with you here.  ..... While these are the most common reasons for a Ford flathead to crack .....

It was simply a cheap casting process that more then not did crack.

 

It is very common to see a crack develop  between a valve and cylinder .... Now the engine needs to be sleeved because of the crack.

 

While I will agree the most common issues of cracks were from freezing or overheating ......  Henry Ford was a communist and built his cars his way.

He demanded the cheapest poorest way to build his engines ........ After the war the Government stepped in and removed Henry & put his intelligent kid in his place.

 

I'm just saying Henry was a flake ..... the government needed to keep the best automaker going ...... The Ford V8 was the best thing going at the time .... 1955 the chebby sbc 265 was born and it took off. ....... Poor execution of casting the Ford V8 was the reason why it failed...... It was also over rated and simply done by those that raced ....

GM or Oldsmobile  had versions of the overhead valve rocket engine.....

 

I'm just saying Ford V8 was the best thing going at one time ..... in a few years it was easily replaced.

[Loren]

Henry Ford was a lot of things but communist wasn’t one of them. He admired Hitler, financed him and supplied him with anti-Semitic propaganda, so you might say he had fascist tendencies. He sued a newspaper for libel and made the mistake of testifying in court. The defendant’s attorneys had a fun time embarrassing him by showing how astonishingly ignorant he was. He could not say when certain events happened in American history such as the year of the revolutionary war. He won the suit because he had been libeled, however the jury awarded him $5.

Henry Ford was a tea totaler and he used to break into his son Edsel’s house and pour out all his liquor.

Edsel died of an ulcer that became cancerous and Henry knew he was the cause.

I visited the Henry Ford museum and in back of his collection of steam engines is this enormous steam powered twin cylinder double acting generator set. It’s easily as big as a house! It took at least two men to operate it. When you look at it and then read the card that describes it you find that this was in the powerhouse of the Highland Park factory and there were 8 of them! If Ford was the master of this beast and 7 of it’s siblings which powered his factory then it’s no wonder he became a little nuts. His wasn’t success it was megalomania.

When Ford’s grandson took over things changed quickly. The flathead took 46 cores to produce and the Ford engineers were so proud that “Y-block” OHV V8 ( 1954 ) only required 26 cores. Of course the Chevy V8 only required 9 cores ( 1955 ). So Ford had a lot of ground to make up and it was mostly from Henry’s stubbornness.

Ford’s initial success can be directly linked his use of the best machine shop in Detroit, namely the Dodge Brothers. They knew what they were doing.

So why am I not surprised that another guy who knew what he was doing, would buy their company when he got the opportunity.

I grew up being told that Henry Ford was an American hero. The truth is he was a very flawed human being. But then people in glass houses…..

[SuperDave87]

A 230 Mopar Flathead six is probably better than even a 59AB Ford V8.

 

They were rated at the same horsepower and I know for a fact that a stock 54 Plymouth will take a Stock 50 Ford in a drag race.

 

Plus, the Mopar has way better cooling.