Hurt my transmission

[Ivan_B]

7 hours ago, D35 Torpedo said:

Looks like I will save the casing, but swap most of the guts.

At least check the casing bearing seats for proper size/shape, with a micrometer; the same with the output shaft tip and the rear bearing seat. Also, carefully inspect the casing for small cracks, especially around the edges. New washers too

 

The water inside was probably condensation and lack of use. This happens.

[D35 Torpedo]

3 hours ago, Ivan_B said:

At least check the casing bearing seats for proper size/shape, with a micrometer; the same with the output shaft tip and the rear bearing seat. Also, carefully inspect the casing for small cracks, especially around the edges. New washers too

 

The water inside was probably condensation and lack of use. This happens.

All the bearings are tight in there bores. There is no signs of spun bearings. Maybe ill sandblast the case today and look it over. Aside from the damage, everything looks really good. Like maybe it was rebuilt at some point. The synchros don't have any signs of wear on the teeth. I just hope the spare is this good. It actually feels better. So I'm saying there's a chance.

[D35 Torpedo]

7 hours ago, Ivan_B said:

At least check the casing bearing seats for proper size/shape, with a micrometer; the same with the output shaft tip and the rear bearing seat. Also, carefully inspect the casing for small cracks, especially around the edges. New washers too

 

The water inside was probably condensation and lack of use. This happens.

You wouldn't happen to have the bearing part numbers handy, would you?

[Ivan_B]

Sorry, nope. The best I can do is to take the caps off and see if those are engraved on the side.

Let's see if any of the guys have the parts catalogue

Edited July 14, 2023 by Ivan_B

[D35 Torpedo]

4 hours ago, Ivan_B said:

Sorry, nope. The best I can do is to take the caps off and see if those are engraved on the side.

Let's see if any of the guys have the parts catalogue

None of the suppliers use the oem part numbers anymore. I have the parts list book. I know rock auto lists them. Either way unless these are terrible, it isn't getting new ones. I did order a new rear seal and speedy sleeve. But I was so busy doing a converible top, that I forgot to get it before the supplier closed. 

[Ivan_B]

Did they use different bearing numbers back then? I was under impression that a 209 bearing was a 209 bearing for ever and ever ?

I suppose I just haven't yet worked on an older piece of equipment where the bearing number engraved on the side was not available in today's catalog...

What numbers do you have in your parts list book? Does Google give you any cross-reference specs?

[soth122003]

1 hour ago, Ivan_B said:

Did they use different bearing numbers back then? I was under impression that a 209 bearing was a 209 bearing for ever and ever

I think the reason the numbers change is the manufacturer of the bearing is not the original manufacturer. A 209 made by a different company might be 1256387-209-3. Some people that are problems in an area are promoted out of the way, work in a new supervisory position and just love to put their spin on things.

 

Joe Lee

[SteveR]

To find the bearing size measure the ID, OD and Width of the bearing. If it has metal sides it is called 'shielded' (Z or ZZ) if rubber then it is called, 'Sealed' (R or 2 RS)

ZZ shielded would mean that there are shields on both sides. 2 RS is 2 rubber seals.

Main bearing companies are SKF, FAG, RHP, INA, TIMKEN, NTN, KOYO, NSK. These are quality bearings and what you want in your transmission. Unmarked bearings are cheap, Chinese are garbage.

a 209 bearing will have an ID of 45mm, OD of 85mm and a width of 19mm.

So a 209 ZZ would have 2 metal shields. If only 1 shield is needed then you can remove the one side.

If you do not have the bearing then measure the OD of the shaft it fits on. You can then work out the bearing OD and Width by measuring where the bearing sits.

Hope this helps

Edited July 15, 2023 by SteveR

[D35 Torpedo]

Koyo 6207N is a direct replacement. I left my book in the shop and there is no way I'm going back out there tonight. It's been a long long day, it's back together except for the rear seal. I cleaned and inspected everything. Used the best parts from both transmissions. The spare trans was rebuild with koyo bearings. The synchros looked like a slightly different bronze. And, while they engaged the cone sooner, they just didn't bite well enough, so I just used mine. The counter shafts were different lengths, with different thrust washers. They all had bits of steel inbedded in the bronze. I used an olfa blade to dig them out, then I turned them around. I resealed the speedo drive and shift levers. Reused the gaskets with the right stuff. I stand to have a better product with less oil spots when I'm done...bonus.

[Ivan_B]

About the synchros: there is also a specified gap range between the syncho and the applicable gear it is sitting on. Make sure that yours is within specs. Some synchros must be grinded down at the base to sit properly, otherwise, the cone will not make the right friction

[D35 Torpedo]

5 hours ago, Ivan_B said:

About the synchros: there is also a specified gap range between the syncho and the applicable gear it is sitting on. Make sure that yours is within specs. Some synchros must be grinded down at the base to sit properly, otherwise, the cone will not make the right friction

In my experience, more gap is better. But in this case that was suspect. So I just played it safe. I know what to expect from the synchros I was already using.

[D35 Torpedo]

Well guys.....disaster hit. I took the car out and everything was great. Then all of a sudden, I couldn't get it into 2nd. I pulled it into a gas station and put it into first. With a crunchy bang something released and I had second again. I went straight home. As I pulled in, it made a weird wurling sound and came to a stop without brakes. It was binding up. I dropped the oil and a gold glitter bomb went off inside. So, I pulled the tranmission again....turns out, it tossed the rear main shaft bearing snap ring out. The whole shaft walked forward and whiped out third gear synchro and the pocket bearing. I can't imagine how a snap ring could do that unless a gremlin got into my shop, or I mucked up installing it. I blame the gremlin...So I pulled it down and went about rebuilding it again. I used green bearing retainer on the rear bearing and snap ring, I laughed like a mad man while doing it. So, now the good synchro was toast. And while the spares look good. They just done bite the same. Well sure enough, I have it all back together but I need to double clutch third. After this weekend, I'm ready to drive it off a cliff. This is the kind of thing that makes people sell there cars. I don't understand why the donor synchros suck. My only guess is that they are after market. I will be pulling it a third time to try to get third to work better. I bet the whiped out synchro would still work better then the donor. Part of me hopes it will get better with time, the other part knows that's wishful thinking.

Edited July 17, 2023 by D35 Torpedo

[Young Ed]

If you've got it mostly functional other than double clutching 3rd why not leave it for a min and see if you can find another trans or some new parts?

[D35 Torpedo]

13 minutes ago, Young Ed said:

If you've got it mostly functional other than double clutching 3rd why not leave it for a min and see if you can find another trans or some new parts?

That's exactly what I will be doing. I need a break anyways. But how long can I live with a crunchy double clutched third will be the decider. 

[Ivan_B]

That's bad news, but that's the risk we take using old parts, etc.

[D35 Torpedo]

15 minutes ago, Ivan_B said:

That's bad news, but that's the risk we take using old parts, etc.

Sometimes old parts are better than new. The tough break was that dang snap ring. I must has installed it incorrectly. 

[dpollo]

The gears are the same as the long transmissions.   PM me, I may be able to help you. I am on Vancouver Island.

[Curt Lee]

On 7/17/2023 at 10:14 AM, D35 Torpedo said:

Sometimes old parts are better than new. The tough break was that dang snap ring. I must has installed it incorrectly. 

I'm reminded of an article Road & Track ran in the early '80's about somebody doing a cross country run in a Model A; after replacing many suspect parts with "new" and "modern" parts, these parts often failed en-route and, ironically, folks came out of the woodwork with original parts that still functioned fine! Understandably, worn out is worn out, no getting around that. But the fact remains that good original parts often beat the "new" by a long shot for reliability. 

[D35 Torpedo]

11 hours ago, CURT LEE said:

I'm reminded of an article Road & Track ran in the early '80's about somebody doing a cross country run in a Model A; after replacing many suspect parts with "new" and "modern" parts, these parts often failed en-route and, ironically, folks came out of the woodwork with original parts that still functioned fine! Understandably, worn out is worn out, no getting around that. But the fact remains that good original parts often beat the "new" by a long shot for reliability. 

I like to call new parts "replicas". They are often made to look the same, but that's where the similarities end. Like suspension pivots and king pins. They look right, but are made of cheese grade material. Probably due to a lack of nickel in the metal.