1940 dodge enige and transmission swap

[Joker]

Hello all,

    A little background of myself, currently working as a machinist with metal shop background. Somewhat of a welder( I can stick **** together).  I have rebuilt a few gen 2 and gen 3 hemi's and transmissions.

   My last full rebuild was on a 1998 dodge neon 2 door coupe. Swapped in a 2004 srt4. And with that being said I will NEVER NEVER do that again.  Wiring was just a pain, the fab was to bad but it did become a money pit.

 

Now to my question, since this is my first pre-war build with a budget of 60k over the next 5 years.  What opinions will I have for a comfortable V8 swap?

   1957-1958 Chrysler 392 seems a good start, however a Gen2 360 is a lot easier to find for the money.  

 

Any help will be great, just start to research, if someone can point the way or get me started that would be great.  I know this is a brief thread.  Did not want to write a Bible on my first time on this forum. 

[Sniper]

Both engines have been swapped into that vehicles over the years.  It depends on your fab skills.  There are companies that make swap kits for 360, Butch's Cool Stuff is one, but honestly with your fab skills making the stuff might be easier, cheaper and more to your prefere3nce than buying a kit.  Not really much to the kit.

 

https://butchscoolstuff.com/40-41-plymouth-40-dodge-sb-chrysler-engine-transmission-mount-kit-2187cp/

 

If you go the 392 route I don't know of any swap kits, per se.  But there are plenty of you cut to fit universal type setups for the engine mounts.  The 360 isn't as wide as the 392, but the exhaust tucks under the heads of the 392 whereas it will stick out past the block and heads on a 360.  So that may be an issue.

[Joker]

@Sniper

I'm not a expert at fabrication, but have done a few.  With a machinist background I can do almost anything. Well with in reason.  Thanks for the reply, I was researching the Gen 2 360, seems to fit nice.  

 

  Plus is that the 360 as you stated is not as wide.  Trying to keep everything under the hood lol.

[Sniper]

I found one 40 Dodge with a 392 swapped in, but they used a Nova front clip so I didn't mention it.  But the small block mopar fits in there nicely.  I might suggest you think about a rack and pinon swap to cure the bumpsteer issue these suspensions do have, as well as add power steering if that's something you are thinking about.

 

Remember, you will need to use a rear sump pan on the 360, truck pan basically, to clear the stock or RP steering.

[Joker]

Will do, power steering is a must. And it will be buld with all mopar parts. I was looking a racks too, basically its going to be a complete rebuild. Frame up, I'm working on the dash cluster as we speak.  Thanks for the website, any and all info is welcome. I will load pictures throughout the build. This pic is owner just before I picked it up. No new pictures yet. 

[knuckleharley]

2 hours ago, Joker said:

Hello all,

    A little background of myself, currently working as a machinist with metal shop background. Somewhat of a welder( I can stick **** together).  I have rebuilt a few gen 2 and gen 3 hemi's and transmissions.

   My last full rebuild was on a 1998 dodge neon 2 door coupe. Swapped in a 2004 srt4. And with that being said I will NEVER NEVER do that again.  Wiring was just a pain, the fab was to bad but it did become a money pit.

 

Now to my question, since this is my first pre-war build with a budget of 60k over the next 5 years.  What opinions will I have for a comfortable V8 swap?

   1957-1958 Chrysler 392 seems a good start, however a Gen2 360 is a lot easier to find for the money.  

 

Any help will be great, just start to research, if someone can point the way or get me started that would be great.  I know this is a brief thread.  Did not want to write a Bible on my first time on this forum. 

" 1957-1958 Chrysler 392 seems a good start"

 

REALLY? You need a new tape measure. I AM beginning to understand your 60 grand budget,though. If you want to "dress to impress",why not go for a 426 hemi or a Max Wedge?

 

Or mo betta,a new hemi with all the computer advances and wiring/controls on it? It is a LOT smaller and lighter,and makes more power to boot.

 

IF it were me,I'd go with a 318-340-360.  The 340's make more power,but are almost stoopid expensive these days with the original heads on them. Then again,if you are not going to race the car,go with a 318 and dress it up a little .
 

I have seen a 33 Plymouth coupe with a blown 392 in it,and there wasn't a whole lot of room and truthfully,the guy driving it didn't seem to be having all that much fun. Maybe he was just having a bad day,or maybe he didn't recess the firewall enough for idling around  a swap meet on a 95 degree day with a chrome engine with a blower and most everything else covered with chrome?

 

Your money,your car,but why not make it into something you will enjoy driving every day if you decide you want to?

 

 

[Andydodge]

Joker......Welcome Aboard from Oztralia...........the pic you posted shows a 1942 Dodge 2 Door Sedan...NOT a Coupe..........Coupe has a short roof..........I have had a 1940 Dodge 4dr Sedan since 1971, 318 poly V8,auto, 4 wheel discs, rack & pinion, etc etc since 1973.......anything is possible, just depends on your fabrication ability, finances and desire.........also licencing/registration laws may have an affect on what you can do as well.........have attached a couple of pics, my car is an Oz assembled 1940 Dodge, uses Dodge grille, badges with Plymouth frame,fenders,hood,bumpers  & lights........regards Andy Douglas

[Joker]

20 hours ago, knuckleharley said:

" 1957-1958 Chrysler 392 seems a good start"

 

REALLY? You need a new tape measure. I AM beginning to understand your 60 grand budget,though. If you want to "dress to impress",why not go for a 426 hemi or a Max Wedge?

 

Or mo betta,a new hemi with all the computer advances and wiring/controls on it? It is a LOT smaller and lighter,and makes more power to boot.

 

IF it were me,I'd go with a 318-340-360.  The 340's make more power,but are almost stoopid expensive these days with the original heads on them. Then again,if you are not going to race the car,go with a 318 and dress it up a little .
 

I have seen a 33 Plymouth coupe with a blown 392 in it,and there wasn't a whole lot of room and truthfully,the guy driving it didn't seem to be having all that much fun. Maybe he was just having a bad day,or maybe he didn't recess the firewall enough for idling around  a swap meet on a 95 degree day with a chrome engine with a blower and most everything else covered with chrome?

 

Your money,your car,but why not make it into something you will enjoy driving every day if you decide you want to?

 

 

Well I didn't want to add my resume on my first tread. But since you called out, why stop at the elephant why not go with SRT8 hellcat.  Since this engine get its name from the fighter plots in WW2. I have been work on cars since I was in kindergarten.

As I stated a starting point and first thought was 57-58 932, I really don't need a new tape measure since being a machinist and working in the aerospace industry. We hold pretty tight tolerances.

 I also have a A.A.S in electronic Engineering and know my way around a car.  With all this being said, this is my first build on a pre-war mopar.  60k seem to be a good number. I'm sure that with doing most the fab myself and all machining the cost will be much lower.

 

I said 60k because the 98 neon costed upwards around 17k.  With having knowledge of late 50's to late 60's mopars I choose that engine.  But I do want to thank you for the insight.  Just did not want to give my resume. 

 

[Joker]

@andy

Looks awesome. I was not aware of the difference of the 2doors vs coupe.  My father was more into the history of Dodge. Still working on Camino it out ( computer software) before into this build.  Also working on getting stainless steel 303 tube for fuel and brake lines

[Joker]

12 minutes ago, Joker said:

Well I didn't want to add my resume on my first tread. But since you called out, why stop at the elephant why not go with SRT8 hellcat.  Since this engine get its name from the fighter plots in WW2. I have been work on cars since I was in kindergarten.

As I stated a starting point and first thought was 57-58 932, I really don't need a new tape measure since being a machinist and working in the aerospace industry. We hold pretty tight tolerances.

 I also have a A.A.S in electronic Engineering and know my way around a car.  With all this being said, this is my first build on a pre-war mopar.  60k seem to be a good number. I'm sure that with doing most the fab myself and all machining the cost will be much lower.

 

I said 60k because the 98 neon costed upwards around 17k.  With having knowledge of late 50's to late 60's mopars I choose that engine.  But I do want to thank you for the insight.  Just did not want to give my resume 

 

[Joker]

9 minutes ago, Joker said:

@andy

Looks awesome. I was not aware of the difference of the 2doors vs coupe.  My father was more into the history of Dodge. Still working on CADing it out ( computer software) before into this build.  Also working on getting stainless steel 303 tube for fuel and brake lines

 

[Joker]

I must apologize, for going off rude or disrespectful. I have the knowledge of somethings but keep myself humble.  For this is a very personal build to honor my father and grandfather.  Forgive if last post seemed that way.

[knuckleharley]

2 hours ago, Joker said:

Well I didn't want to add my resume on my first tread. But since you called out, why stop at the elephant why not go with SRT8 hellcat.  Since this engine get its name from the fighter plots in WW2. I have been work on cars since I was in kindergarten.

As I stated a starting point and first thought was 57-58 932, I really don't need a new tape measure since being a machinist and working in the aerospace industry. We hold pretty tight tolerances.

 I also have a A.A.S in electronic Engineering and know my way around a car.  With all this being said, this is my first build on a pre-war mopar.  60k seem to be a good number. I'm sure that with doing most the fab myself and all machining the cost will be much lower.

 

I said 60k because the 98 neon costed upwards around 17k.  With having knowledge of late 50's to late 60's mopars I choose that engine.  But I do want to thank you for the insight.  Just did not want to give my resume. 

 

I understand,and I also understand what inflation and rarity has done to antique or just plain obsolete auto parts. 60 grand ain't what it used to be. Still a lot of money,but just a couple of decades ago you could buy a nice new house in many areas with 60 grand. Now it's more like a downpayment.

 

I am GUESSING there isn't a lot of dollar difference between buying a buildable 392 core and then building it and a Torqueflite up,to buying a new hi-po hemi,wiring harness,and transmission.

 

If it were me and I was building a show car,I'd go with a blown 392. If I were going for a car to drive and enjoy that had a stunning amount of power,I'd go with the new computer engine and trans combo.

 

I am sure there are members here who could pretty much quote us fairly accurate prices on both off the top of their heads,but I ain't one of them. I know for a fact I can't afford and don't even want either,so I have never bothered to check it out. I am one of those "keep it simple" guys that prefers "daily driver in good weather" cars and trucks. I have modern trucks and cars to drive in bad weather.

 

I do  LOVE slant 6's and 318's because they are damn near indestructable,though. I suppose the 360's are too,but have never had a car or truck that had one in it. I even have a new factory crate 318 and AOD for my 37 Dodge 4x4 1.5 ton truck. I am redoing it to sell,but I am also redoing it to keep and drive if nobody wants it. Can't go wrong that way.

Edited March 7, 2021 by knuckleharley

[Joker]

I agree , the 225 and 318 both in my opinion "Tank" engines. For me it's not so much about the HP but more for the reality of the build.

 

With a endless pocket of cash one can get whatever they want.  However that is not me, still have to feed my family.

 

I figured going with a 57-58 Chrysler was a step in the right direction. Since iys within the time frame. But than again 17 to 18 years later is a life time.

 

But I'm actually putting the frame on CAD cam\Solidworks. To get a better idea before actual fabrication beings

 

My deepest apologies, just felt that being a young man.  Some older gentlemen think we are  Ignorant

[knuckleharley]

3 hours ago, Joker said:

@andy

Looks awesome. I was not aware of the difference of the 2doors vs coupe.  My father was more into the history of Dodge. Still working on Camino it out ( computer software) before into this build.  Also working on getting stainless steel 303 tube for fuel and brake lines

Don'/t get SS tubing for brake and fuel lines. Depending on what mixture you get,it can be brittle and crack after vibrating.

Buy the new copper-nickel brake line tubing available everywhere. Cheap,you can bend it with your hands without it kinking,and it wil never rust in or out. You can probably buy enought to do your brake lines and gas lines for 30 bucks or so. Haven't bought any in a few years,and chemo has destroyed my memory,so don't quoe me on the price. Just stop in at your local NAPA store and ask them how much for a roll long enough to do your brake lines,and a roll long enough to do your fuel lines.

 

While you are there,buy new rubber brake lines to replace your old ones,regardless of how good they look.

Edited March 7, 2021 by knuckleharley

[knuckleharley]

2 hours ago, Joker said:

I must apologize, for going off rude or disrespectful. I have the knowledge of somethings but keep myself humble.  For this is a very personal build to honor my father and grandfather.  Forgive if last post seemed that way.

 Can't speak for anyone else,but *I* was not offended in any way.

[Joker]

No 303 stainless tubes??? I was not aware of them cracking.  The tubes I'm thinking of is seamless that you'd use for 100psi or over.

[Sniper]

A vehicle has a lot of vibration to deal with.  Stainless, in general, doesn't much care for vibration so that has to be taken into account to prevent vibration induced cracks.  These cracks tend to form where the pipe is solidly attached, like at fittings, when the rest of the pipe is unsupported and allowed to move due to vibration.  I suspect if you used line clamps to secure the pipe you'd be ok.  Now don't ask me how many and how far apart, lol.  I suspect that the diameter and length will be the major factors though. 

[T120]

 Great project - your 1942 Dodge 2 door sedan. Lots of knowledgeable and helpful folks here on this forum. I'm looking forward to updates on your build.? 

[Joker]

That's good to know, since I've machine alot of 300 and 400 series stainless steels. I was not informed of the cracking of it.  I'm aware of tubing used in airplane that's seamless that come from the factory. Now I'm questioning if that would Crack under the added stress.

 

With that being said, thinking I will stick with the nickel/copper.  I'm pretty ignorant for a smart guy lol.

Edited March 7, 2021 by Joker

[Joker]

@T120 

Thanks, I'm actually getting alot of info from this forum already.  I can't wait to get this project started. It took me over 10 years to find this vehicle.

 

so hopefully it turns out as I planned. 

[Sniper]

The aerospace guys generally have that stuff dialed in to a T, me?  I'm just a dirty neck hotrodder with a lot of practical experience.

[wayfarer]

Sounds like you have it pretty well figured out...now about that 392....?

[Adam H P15 D30]

If power isn't your first priority, you could look for a 331-354 HEMI and 99% of the bench racers wouldn't know the difference unless you go with an early, early 331.

Easier to find...

Edited March 9, 2021 by Adam H P15 D30

[knuckleharley]

1 hour ago, Adam H P15 D30 said:

If power isn't your first priority, you could look for a 331-354 HEMI and 99% of the bench racers wouldn't know the difference unless you go with an early, early 331.

Easier to find...

My plans are to put a 330 DeSoto hemi in my 33 Plymouth coupe,basically because I got the car for free along with something I wanted in a trade for a tractor I no longer needed. The 56 DeSoto 4dr I got was a total rust bucket,but mechanically complete,so why not use it?

 

I also have a factory 4brl 276 DeSoto engine with low miles and no cylinder ridges,but I'm thinking I would rather see a restorer needing an engine for a 2dr ht or convertible get that one.

Edited March 9, 2021 by knuckleharley