49 chrysler royal timing chain cover 6 cyl.

[Jeff I indu]

I've put about 400 miles on the car in the past few weeks. I now have a leak at the seal on the timing case cover. No surprise. The car mostly sat for the past 35 years and I switched to shell rotella 10w30 oil. My shop manual lists the camshaft and chain case cover removal as a single procedure. I believe I only need to drain and remove the radiator to gain access. The book says to use puller C-355 to remove the crankshaft pulley. I assume the pulley is held to the crank with a single bolt and then I can use a gear puller?? Or does it have threaded holes and I can use a steering wheel type puller? Just want to have the proper puller in hand before I start. Once I have the cover off knocking out and installing the new seal should not be a problem. But then the book says to reinstall the cover just enough to hold it in place and use special tool C-522 holding it in place by crankshaft starting jaw. Tighten starting jaw with fingers only. Tighten chain case cover screws. As chain case cover screws are being tightened and gasket compressed tighten starting jaw but maintaining a slight tension between seal and centering tool. Then remove special tool and install. Crankshaft starting jaw tightening it to 108 foot pounds minimum torque.

Not sure what tool  C-522 is or if I really need it. Also not sure what crankshaft starting jaw is also. My experience is that the new seal should slide over the lightly oiled crankshaft end, then tighten the cover bolts and reinstall and tighten the pulley.

Can someone who has done this clarify the need for the special tools and define what crankshaft starting jaw is?

Thanks in advance

Jeff

[Andydodge]

5 hours ago, Jeff I indu said:

I've put about 400 miles on the car in the past few weeks. I now have a leak at the seal on the timing case cover. No surprise. The car mostly sat for the past 35 years and I switched to shell rotella 10w30 oil. My shop manual lists the camshaft and chain case cover removal as a single procedure. I believe I only need to drain and remove the radiator to gain access. The book says to use puller C-355 to remove the crankshaft pulley. I assume the pulley is held to the crank with a single bolt and then I can use a gear puller?? Or does it have threaded holes and I can use a steering wheel type puller? Just want to have the proper puller in hand before I start. Once I have the cover off knocking out and installing the new seal should not be a problem. But then the book says to reinstall the cover just enough to hold it in place and use special tool C-522 holding it in place by crankshaft starting jaw. Tighten starting jaw with fingers only. Tighten chain case cover screws. As chain case cover screws are being tightened and gasket compressed tighten starting jaw but maintaining a slight tension between seal and centering tool. Then remove special tool and install. Crankshaft starting jaw tightening it to 108 foot pounds minimum torque.

Not sure what tool  C-522 is or if I really need it. Also not sure what crankshaft starting jaw is also. My experience is that the new seal should slide over the lightly oiled crankshaft end, then tighten the cover bolts and reinstall and tighten the pulley.

Can someone who has done this clarify the need for the special tools and define what crankshaft starting jaw is?

Thanks in advance

Jeff

The crankshaft starting jaw refers to the pre 1948(?) system where the engine could be started using the crank handle.....it fitted into a special pulley bolt that had two "jaws" that captured the crank handle and allowed it to turn over the engine.......at least thats what I understand a "crankshaft starting jaw" is.......lol........and as for what type of puller..........I have seen a couple of different pulleys/crank hubs over the years so I suggest give the area a good degrease & clean and see what you actually have.......either way you will have to undo the crank hub bolt which may or may not have the "starting jaw" as part of the bolt....if its there you may need to use a deep socket, from memory the bolt size is 1 &11/16th but again mother mopar may have had a few choices here over the years so best to check for certain...............lol..........and when reassembly its good practice to lightly tighten the timing chain cover bolts  letting the hub "center" the cover then tightening the timing cover bolts after its centered........make sense?...........lol........andyd .. 

[Jeff I indu]

Makes sense to me. Whenever I see use special tool xxxx I always wonder if it is really special. I have gear pullers, harmonic balancer pullers and steering wheel pullers. I dont have a deep well socket that big but will cross that bridge when I get to it. When reinstalling it makes sense to let the seal center on the crank before tightening. I dont know what tool  522 is unless it is like a speedy sleeve and spreads the new seal with pressure to center it correctly. But it seems strange to spread the seal flange for fear of stretching it.I would hope that modern seals ride firmly on the crank hub and center without the need for a special tool. But still need to order the parts and pull the radiator. Once I start the job it will probably all make sense. I just wanted to understand if there is really anything special about the special tools specified that would stop me from doing this job correctly

Thanks for the response

Jeff

[Sam Buchanan]

Be prepared to order a Speedi sleeve if your damper has any wear on the journal. 

 

Part number 99218 was the correct sleeve for the 218 in my P15.

 

Edited September 9, 2020 by Sam Buchanan

[knuckleharley]

7 hours ago, Jeff I indu said:

 

Can someone who has done this clarify the need for the special tools and define what crankshaft starting jaw is?

Thanks in advance

Jeff

They sure do seem to make it a whole lot more complicated than it needs to be,don't they?

[Jeff I indu]

Sam, I assume you mean if the old seal has worn a groove on the crankshaft end that I can still feel with a fingernail after buffing with a strip of crocus cloth then i should use a speedy sleeve? Or does the pulley have a hub that the seal rides on? Either way i will check it out once removed I am hoping it is leaking due to being 71 years old and now using a thinner oil.

Knuckleharley, you are right. I have done many timing chains without special tools, just never on anything this old, therefore I ask questions before I start.

[knuckleharley]

1 hour ago, Jeff I indu said:

 

Knuckleharley, you are right. I have done many timing chains without special tools, just never on anything this old, therefore I ask questions before I start.

Smart move. Never stop.

 

My comment was related to some of the manuals seem to TRY to make otherwise simple repairs so complex that home mechanics will just throw their arms in the air in frustration,and take it to a dealership.

[DJK]

Instead of using the pulley hub to center the cover, I fabricated a tool from PVC pipe and duct tape for proper fit, no leak.

[Jeff I indu]

DJK

So is special tool C-522 really just a sleeve that slides over the crank end to mimic the pulley hub? Puts pressure on the lips of the seal to help center the timing chain cover while you tighten it? Then when you install the pulley you know the seal is already centered? A piece of pvc will do the same job of centering seal?  2 in ID maybe? What is the duct tape used for? Again I have not started this job yet. Just trying to line up the tools I will need

Thanks

Jeff

 

[Sam Buchanan]

3 hours ago, Jeff I indu said:

Sam, I assume you mean if the old seal has worn a groove on the crankshaft end that I can still feel with a fingernail after buffing with a strip of crocus cloth then i should use a speedy sleeve? Or does the pulley have a hub that the seal rides on? Either way i will check it out once removed I am hoping it is leaking due to being 71 years old and now using a thinner oil.

Knuckleharley, you are right. I have done many timing chains without special tools, just never on anything this old, therefore I ask questions before I start.

 

The pulley has a journal that runs inside the seal. Leaking due to being 71 years old is probably correct, but I doubt the thinner oil is the problem. ?

[Jeff I indu]

Hello, 

Got it apart today and soaking pulley and nut with pb blaster until tomorrow. I assume the 6 hub bolts come off first. Then the big nut. I assume it backs off counterclockwise as normal. Is the hub and pulley come off as one unit or does it separate? If it separates do I need to mark it or are they both keyed to only go back on one way.I have it sitting at DC right now on the timing marker. The book does not provide details. It appears the seal has been leaking for a long time

Thanks

Jeff

. 

[Andydodge]

Unless your car has something special the crank hub nut bolt is a standard right hand thread, ie, the centre nut turns anti clockwise to undo.........I find that wedging a small block of wood between the pulley and the frame jams the pulley tight & allows you to undo the nut, to do up, reverse the procedure........... depending on the frame clearance it maybe simpler to as mentioned undo the centre nut first...............the pulley/hub may come straight off or you may have to use a puller, I made one that used the 2 opposite bolt holes in the pulley to attach and then removed the unit...........what I found was the hub/pulley was attached together with 6 rivets which had started to wear and come loose........I decided that as a temporary measure I tack welded the hub/pulley together at spots equidistant around the hub which "fixed" the wobble...and the unusual noise .......then after installing a speedie sleeve and new seal in the timing cover all was good..........a new 230 engine was planned anyway so this fix suited my plans...............andyd   

[Jeff I indu]

Andy,

I'm not sure because I've never done one but think mine had 6 bolts instead of 6 rivets to hold it together. After staring at it for the past hour I think once I unbolt the 6 bolts then the pulley will be free. It may not even be pressed into the crank. I may only have to pull the hub and the pulley will fall out. I see what you mean about wedging a piece of wood to lock it. Got a 3/4 in drive set and will bust it out tomorrow. After learning the hard way with chrysler lug nuts it's good to know up front that the big nut is standard thread. Book just doesn't give details. 

Jeff

 

 

[DJK]

On 9/9/2020 at 10:36 PM, Jeff I indu said:

DJK

So is special tool C-522 really just a sleeve that slides over the crank end to mimic the pulley hub? Puts pressure on the lips of the seal to help center the timing chain cover while you tighten it? Then when you install the pulley you know the seal is already centered? A piece of pvc will do the same job of centering seal?  2 in ID maybe? What is the duct tape used for? Again I have not started this job yet. Just trying to line up the tools I will need

Thanks

Jeff

 

I used 1 1/2 ID PVC pipe w/ duct tape wrapped to make a good fit seal to PVC. If I remember, may have had to wrap tape on crank also for good fit to PVC.

[Jeff I indu]

All done, I did order a speedy sleeve, sam, great idea and thanks for the part number. It fit just like your picture showed. I thought about using the pvc to center the housing but decided to just use my hub. On my car the balancer, pulley and crank hub all separate. Loosely installed the timing chain bolts and used the hub to center everything before tightening all the timing cover bolts. 

[DJK]

Mine was a 1 piece unit and very tight fit to the crank. Good job!

[Dodgeb4ya]

That hub looks like it got beat up pretty good....not good on the rear main bearing flange surface.

Hopefully the pulley and damper will slide on the hub ok.

[Jeff I indu]

You are right. I buffed the crank end with emery cloth and cleaned the inside of the hub the best I could but it took a big hammer.to get it back on. I then had to file the edges of the hub to get the pulley to slide back on the hub. It's running fine now. Hindsight maybe I could have heated the hub in some hot water before installing it  but it's done now

Jeff