Vacuum to electric wiper conversion

[Lloyd]

I'm thinking about converting my wipers over to electric on my 39 P8. Right now they are the stock Trico vacuum motors. I will be mounting a set of Langdon headers to the engine so running off a stock dual diaphragm fuel pump is out of the question. I mounted a vacuum canister with a hose coming straight off the intake then added a 12 volt vacuum pump powered by a step up converter rated at 10 amps.  Although I had numerous leaks to take care of they do work with this set up but the vacuum pump I installed does not have enough to supply the motors by itself, not even just one motor. Description said it was for powering accessories. It has an auto cut-off that tries to maintain 11-15  inHg  but it runs constantly with just one motor on and the wiper doesn't budge. 

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hla-h81953021

 

The converter I'm using is rated at 10 amps more than enough for the pump I'm using but I'm thinking of two things. 

1. Get a better pump. I'm looking at Hella pumps that are rated at anywhere from 18-22 inHg to 30 inHg but current draw on these are around 10-15 amps. The  converter I have is rated at 10 amps so I would need to get a different converter. Plus they are not auto shut-off so I have to get all that stuff to.

2. Swap to electric wipers.

 

I know Newport has a set of wipers but they show their 39 Plymouth set as a replacement for factory original electric motor mounted under the dash, mine are overhead and are vacuum. The earliest I see they have as a replacement for vacuum motors is their 35-1936 set. I'm thinking unless I want to try and see if the earlier 35-36 ones will fit in the original overhead locations I would have to get the 1939 set, mount under the dash and drill holes for the wiper shafts. Plus they only have 12 volt so I would need to make certain I can get a 6-12 volt converter that can handle the motor. The biggest 6-12 volt converter I have found is rated at 20 amp.

 

Does anyone know anything about these guys?

https://raingearwipers.com/product/mighty-wiper-1-inch/

I first saw these on Bob Drakes website, then I emailed them to find out what the amp draw was on the motors and in his return email he mentioned he gets the motors from Rain Gear Wipers.

Looking at Rain Gear sets they even have a 6 volt set plus I checked the dims of the 1" motors and they are close enough to the Trico vacuum motors that I don't see any issue with them fitting in the original overhead locations.

 

I think the Rain Gear sets would work. Either that or try a better vacuum pump.

Already gone half the road on getting the vacuum wipers to work. With just max intake vacuum they work pretty fast, to fast so I also need to find a vacuum switch/solenoid that will throttle down the vacuum to the wipers. The pump would come off the switch and assist when intake/canister vacuum is lower then the switch settings. Should keep my wipers at one constant speed. That has been my plan and I've spent the last week putting it together. But now I'm thinking about throwing it all to the wind and going with electric wipers. Leaning towards the Rain Gear 1" set.

 

I think they call this a conundrum.

 

[casper50]

I bought one of these off of ebay 3 years ago and it fit with no alterations.  My wipers work fine and are two speed now as well.   I only paid $75 for mine though.   https://www.ebay.com/itm/1941-1949-CHRYSLER-DODGE-PLYMOUTH-DESOTO-6V-AUTOLITE-WIPER-MOTOR-41-49/174367670505?epid=1265606633&hash=item28991f80e9:g:QLkAAOSwH6dfIDkQ

 

 

Edited August 5, 2020 by casper50

[Sniper]

Good old MoParPro, jacking prices up.  I got an electric wiper motor for my 51 off Ebay last fall, $45 delivered, not from our friend though.  Still have the old one, but the wiring is shot, insulation all cracked off.

[50mech]

I did the same as casper50 $65 on eBay for a 47 Chrysler setup. Though I had to cut the back of my radio off to clear it.

For overheads though, you might consider a cable drive setup, haven't heard great things about the mightywipers

Edited August 5, 2020 by 50mech

[Lloyd]

20 hours ago, 50mech said:

I did the same as casper50 $65 on eBay for a 47 Chrysler setup. Though I had to cut the back of my radio off to clear it.

For overheads though, you might consider a cable drive setup, haven't heard great things about the mightywipers

 

Thanks for the responses. I was pretty much sold on the Might Wiper motors but after more research found they have some plastic gears.  

So much for that. To bad, they seemed like the answer - get off the vacuum, 6 volt positive ground available plus they fit in the stock locations of the original vacuum motors. 

I have looked at the Newport wiper systems and they do not have a setup that  replaces each vacuum motor and mounts at the same location. Their system mounts under the dash, which means I have to move the wiper arm location from the top to the bottom of the windshield, not sure what I would have to do about mountings - anyway I would rather leave them up top. I like them better up there. I don't know any other electric options I can go with that will replace the vacuum motors and mount in place. I'm going to take a look at the cable setup options. 

 

Going with the original vacuum motors - my engine intake vacuum holds steady at 22-24 at an idle. With intake vacuum piped to my canister I see it drop to about 15 as soon as I turn on both wipers. I don't like that. I want to come off engine vacuum and leave it for the engine. Only option there is to get a bigger pump. They do have one I've been looking at, its made by Leed and called the 'Bandit'. About $350.. Its a rotary style and more efficient and quiet then the piston type.

Looking closely at the motor I see it states 12 amps so I would have to get  a bigger 6-12 volt converter as well. Another $40.

I could spend the money, but I wonder if the pump could be the sole supply for the vacuum motors. Which means it would run pretty much constantly when the wipers are working.

 

So its down to two choices, find a cable setup option that works, or try a bigger vacuum pump.

[50mech]

Only cable drive 6v pos setups I've seen.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.specialtypowerwindows.com/products/2&ved=2ahUKEwiVwoWT_obrAhWLZd8KHb8hCpkQFjACegQIAxAB&usg=AOvVaw3Egu4-54TFMf2jts-a8ZZV

 

At least in kit form. I guess you could save a little money by getting a generic eBay setup then replacing the motor with a 6v of the same frame size. DC and rotation direction shouldnt matter so polarity shouldn't actually matter.

 

Assuming there's no issue running the cable. I have never seen the car so I have no idea.

Edited August 6, 2020 by 50mech

[DJ194950]

Lloyd,

 

Is this this the same company as Mighty wipers?

 

It appears they olny sell 12 volt kits which would require an voltage inverter if your still 6 volt, and do not give details and the gears used. Most I have ever seem more modern setups use Nylon gears for power wipers and windows as do all modern autos.

 

http://www.specialtypowerwindows.com/products/2

 

DJ

[Lloyd]

Hey DJ,

No I don't think it is. I don't believe it has anything to do with Mighty Wipers. Its a different system, sounds like the motor is a lot better than Mighty Wipers has to offer.

I believe the Mighty Wipers is Raingear Wiper Systems but I'm not sure if they are sourcing them out as well. Just every site I've found selling the system refers back to them.

I'm still on the fence about the Mighty Wiper System but I really don't like the idea of plastic gears. Can't seem to get over that.

The Power Window Specialties looks interesting but I wish I could see a better pic of there system.

 

I'll probably try the Leeds Bandit, mounted in the trunk with a stainless tube going up front to my canister, then to the Trico original vac motors.

Edited August 6, 2020 by Lloyd

[50mech]

Found  these

https://www.kaiserwillys.com/windshield-wiper-motor-conversion-kit-in-6-volt-fits-41-59-mb-gpw-cj-2a-3a-3b-5

 

2.125x3.25x3.33

Edited August 6, 2020 by 50mech

[Lloyd]

Thanks 50, That motor would not fit.

I've attached a pic of one of my stock vac motors in the header on the drivers side.

 

 

Back to edit,

I've looked at the vacuum motors these kits are designed to replace and they 'look' like about the same ones I now have...

 

Edited August 6, 2020 by Lloyd
Add

[50mech]

I'm a bit lost really, just kind of tossing out some ideas. Fabrication is one of those deals where 15-30 minutes car at hand it would be so much easier. Even cable drive seems like some spacers would be required, nice thing is theyre synchronized. 

 

If you have a p/n or dimensions it might help. The pic helps too.

[Andydodge]

Here in Oz most 30's and 40's mopars used electric wipers, but 6 volt......when I installed the 318 poly etc I upgraded to 12 volt BMC(Morris, Hillman/Austin etc)  cable drive wipers, I installed the wiper motor behind the glove box on the passenger side and used the BMC gear drive assemblys with one mounted upside down to give the wipers the correct action, ie, "clap your hands" action, this setup has worked fine for 35 years.............and a cable setup can have the motor mounted anywhere so long as the cable is long enough to reach the drive gearboxes................andyd  

[Lloyd]

Thanks Andy. Seems like most are in favor of a cable drive system. I think it would require me move the wipers down from the top of the windshield to the bottom of the windshield. That would be easier then trying to run a cable up thru one of the pillars then across the header.

I'm not sure how a cable system works.

I've looked at the SPW system that 50 provided a link to but the pics are terrible on that website. Although doing a search  for reviews the system seems to get a favorable rating from most.

 

Maybe I should reconsider keeping the wipers up top, move them to the bottom and install an electric system. It would certainly be the best of both worlds. Sync and two speed to boot.

[Sniper]

One cable system essentially uses the cable as a flexible driveshaft.  This lets you put the motor somewhere that you have room for it and remotely drive the wipers.

 

The replacement wiper pivots are just gearboxes, so they can be slim enough to fit in a tight place like the header.  they have a drive connection on each side, as mentioned you can "flip" one side to get the "hands clapping" wiper motion.

 

the other style I have seen uses the cable as flexible linkage.  Where the remotely mounted motor has the crank arm on it and pulls/pushed the inner cable.  The other end of the cable hooks to your wiper pivot's arm and actuates the wiper.  This is somewhat easier to setup if you can reuse you stock wiper pivots.  There is usually an adapter wheel/arm on the motor that will allow for several different cable mount locations so that you can adjust the stroke. 

 

Both are somewhat fiddly to setup for stroke and park, but once done it works. 

 

[Lloyd]

Thanks Sniper. I'm looking at the SPW systems right now. Been spending the last couple hours researching them. After watching some UTube it looks like the length of the shafts on the gearboxes can be shortened. This means they may be able to fit up there in the header. I would have to run the cable up the pillar then across the header. 

Seems like it might work and be a better system then the vacuum motors.

I'm going to go take a look at my car and get some measurements, maybe a mounting place for the motor.

For wiper arms I see they have two sizes:

1/2 inch fine spline knurls or arms that fit 1/4 inch shafts.

That's one question i would have to find out - my stock arms are 13" from the place where the arm mounts to the shaft and to the tip of the wiper blade.

Am I going to be able to find wiper arms that fit either of the two shafts and with blades about 13" long?

[50mech]

Arms are easy, there are three sizes of drum and they're basically universal. Almost every arm out there goes on one of them. 1/4 taper, 1/2 drum,5/8 drum and there are adapters to convert to any as well.

You can even get adjustable length arms.

 

I may have mis-spoke on the spw 6v, I swear somewhere I saw they had 6v versions and now I don't see them.

[Lloyd]

No I don’t see a 6v. The SPW motor requires a 20 amp fuse. The biggest 6-12 volt converter I have found is rated at 20 amps. I guess that would still work...

I’m guessing the converter might get a little warm but I think the 20 amp fuse for the motor doesn’t mean it will pull steady 20 amps? I don’t know. 
Any thoughts on that?

[50mech]

If it's fused at 20 it probably draws 10-12.

If you have to use an inverter anyhow I'd maybe look at the EZ wiring wiper kit which is way cheaper at about $170 and basically identical to the SPW.

Frees up a money for the inverter or....a good electrical shop could rewind the motor for 6.

Might even be able to find a 6v motor that bolts in place of the one on it.

Edited August 7, 2020 by 50mech

[Lloyd]

There’s some good ideas. 
I did look at the EZ Wiring kit but I figured since everyone was talking about the SPW kit it must be good. If I can expect it to draw 10-12 amps it should work. I just looked at some possible mounting locations for the motor. Called SPW to get the dims. She said 7” x 4” x 4”. It should fit on the passenger side beside and above the heater. Have to make a mounting plate. 
I’ll take another look at EZ Wiring kit. 

Never occurred to me to get the motor rewired to 6v. 
 

Thank you. 

[50mech]

Ok, so I'm looking at an article on the EZ wiring kit ( btw the company is dumping what they have on eBay and not making them, that's why the price is half)

In any case looks to like you could simply mount this Chevy motor in place of the motor and trans.

Pic 17

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/1109rc-installing-ez-wiring-universal-wiper-kit/?galleryImageId=487208

 

https://www.chevsofthe40s.com/detail/11459/Chevrolet_Windshield_Wiper_Motor_6v_2_Speed_With_Park.html

Edited August 7, 2020 by 50mech

[Lloyd]

OK I was wondering why they didn't show them on their site but I was finding them on other websites. That's a little discouraging. Don't guess they would care to honor the 1 year warranty much.

I'm leaning towards the SPW kit. I think at $275 for the entire kit with the converter of $40 it should work. I spoke with SPW and they said it usually pulls around 13 amps. I would start with a lower fuse like 15 amps just to see what happens.

 

Right now I'm going to look into what it would take to get someone to take the motor down to 6 volts.

[Andydodge]

The pic I posted previously shows the original cable wiper arms that I used........but after 30 yrs or more they were getting a little shabby so I got a nice new pair from the USA, Newport Engineering, were not cheap due to the exchange rate & postage but fit straight on and were adjustable for length and angle.............so check out Newport Engineering also............andyd,  

[Lloyd]

Thanks Andy. 
I ordered a set from SPW this morning. Good reviews and looked about the best bet to keep mine overhead. Also getting a 6-12v 20a converter. It will be a few weeks before I can get to it, gotta go back to my real job Tuesday. 
But I’ll get back to this thread and let you all know how it works out. 
Thanks to everyone for the help. 

[classiccarjack]

Please send in photos, I am wanting to do a overhead set also on my 1934 Plymouth PG and my 1934 Dodge KCL.  If this works out well for your car, then I will do the same on mine.

[Lloyd]

Will do. It will be about 4 weeks before I can get to it. 
but I will update this post.