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Vacuum to electric wiper conversion


Lloyd

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I have electric wipers on my '39 Plym conv cpe, the wipers on the conv's and station wagons are mounted on the cowl in lieu of the windshield header and the windshield is fixed in place where-as the closed '39's and earlier have a windshield that opens out.

The only option for good reliable wipers on the header panel is to use cable operated wipers with the motor mounted under the dash.

I do not see overhead cable operated wipers as an option, especially on a 6v system.

I used a Bosh 12v 2 spd motor from the rear door of a Dodge van. The motor is very small, we took the transmission arm off of the under dash original vacuum motor, modified the arm and shaft of the motor to be compatible,  then hooked the 39 arms to same, works great.. Used stock wiper arms on the exterior, so the whole assembly looks stock.The Dodge wiper motor was $20. a Pick-A-Part.

We used the same system on my brothers '54 Chevy 2dr sdn, and have used it on other vehicles. Wm.

39 Plym conv.7-14-1.jpg

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Hi Lloyd,

Noticed on Roberts Website that he offers 6 & 12 volt wiper motors that can be used with a  39 Ply.  Indicates they will go in same location as original vacuum, $180 each.   Interested in how you make out, someday thinking of changing my 39 wipers to electric

Rich

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Thanks Richard. Hadn’t been to that website in a while. The wiper motors he is showing look a lot like the Mighty Wiper motors. 
https://raingearwipers.com/
 

if they are then Rain Gear has them a little cheaper. Don’t know if they are the same but some reviews on the RG motors said they had plastic gears and more a few were trying to get replacement gears. I’m sure they don’t mean plastic but probably that hard nylon type stuff I’ve seen it used in a few things for gears. 
But that is a good price on the brown pedal. 

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For the life of me I can't see how cable or shaft operated electric wipers could be used in a '39 or earlier with the overhead wipers. The '39 issue is compounded due to the V'd windshield.

From my experience the electric wiper motors I have seen used on overhead applications have been single motors on each wiper. This application presents a problem because the two motors can not work in unison, therefore the wiper blades conflict with each or if the spacing is not wide enough to keep them apart.

One motor could be used on the driver side with the passenger side being operated with a external 'slave shaft' like Ford used on the '35-36 Fords, this way the wipers work in unison. Of course on a V'd windshield the external slave shaft would be a iffy deal same as it would be within the overhead panel.

I had a '53 Pontiac many years ago that had been converted to electric motors on the wipers, one on each side. They were a mess because they were not in unison. I scrounged up an original wiper system which was cable operated, a very big chore to install but worth the effort. The '53 Pontiac had a two stage vacuum boosted feature built into the fuel pump so the wipers worked fine. Wm.      

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  • 1 month later...

The SPW wiper kit arrived while I was gone. Bench tested the motor with the 6-12V 20A converter and it ran so I got into it. I wanted to mount the motor behind the kick panel on the pass side but it stuck out to much. Only way to put it there was modify the kick panel. So I started looking up above the glove box and heater unit. I made a couple brackets that point the output cable directly at the door post where the original vacuum line ran up to the overhead. Angled it up to reduce the first bend. The directions also say that all outputs from the motor assembly and transmissions have to go at least 4 inches straight before any bends. Had to do a lot of holding with the heater unit and glove box in before I could see a way to mount it up.

Painted the brackets and they are drying now. I did test mount the transmission over the pass side just to see what it would take. Actually fit pretty good. I don't see any problems so far. Biggest hassle is going to be running the tubing.

First pic is the top plate for the motor assembly with brackets installed.

Second two pics are the mounted unit (heater and glove box removed) at the top of the kick panel area on the passenger side.

 

I'll attach a couple more pics tomorrow afternoon.

IMG_2803.JPG

IMG_2805.JPG

IMG_2807.JPG

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Little more progress today. Then it got to hot.

I added a support bracket to the forward bracket this morning. The brackets I used 1/8" X 2" flat steel. Got it at Lowes. But I didnt like the way the forward bracket was holding the weight so I put a support under it. Wish I could have bolted it somewhere else rather than using the same bolt but only other option was going up. Its pretty sturdy now.

Got the wiper transmissions in, no real problem but they would not clear the header till I shortened them. I used the shaft length on the original vacuum motors as a ballpark measurement plus eyeballed it. After I shortened the shafts they slipped right in. The original vacuum motors have a part that slides on the shaft before installing the motor. It has a flat lip that rests on the motor and the other side is cut at an angle. The chrome trim that screws on  the outside of the shaft is also cut at an angle. So I used both these pieces on the wiper trans to give me the correct shaft angle to the windshield. The instructions say 90 degrees is optimum. The original vacuum motor shaft is smaller in diameter so I had to drill out the centers of both pieces to get them to fit on the transmission shafts. I've added a couple pics of the brackets on both the original vacuum motor and the wiper trans.

 

Also cut, flared and installed the drive cable tubing. Its aluminum, never flared aluminum and took me a couple times to start getting decent flares. I kept tightening it to much and the flare would split. Then I just took it down enough to get a decent flare and stopped. I thought installing the tubing would be the biggest problem but it went fairly easy. Probably the easiest part so far. I would like to secure the tubing someway at the top and bottom of the door post plus inside the header. May have to resort to tie wraps. Also put some sort of cut hose or something at places where it looks like it might rub and where I secure it. I've added some pics of the trans and tubing, kinda hard to get a decent pic with my headliner hanging down.

I just put that headliner up, so I would suggest if anyone wants to put a new headliner in and is thinking about installing cable operated wipers in the overhead position - take the headliner down, prep for install, then install your wiper system.I did rebuild both vacuum motors and had them installed before I put up the headliner up but after I got them working I wasn't happy with them. I installed a vacuum reservoir, put a vacuum pump on to assist but the pump I bought just didn't have enough to keep up. I could have spent for a better pump, about $200 for a brake booster vacuum pump that I believe would have worked but after getting some feedback from 50mech and Sniper I decided to toss it all and go with this setup. If it works it will give me wiper with an adjustable speed switch. One thing I would like to try and get is a knob that will fit the switch and match my other knobs.

 

Tomorrow I'll finish the install of the tubing at the motor, install the motor and wire it up.

The drive motor has a wheel with about 8-9 holes in it. An arm fits from these holes to the drive shaft cable. Directions say that depending on which hole you pick that decides how much angle your wipers will sweep. The holes spiral in towards the center of the wheel. So if rod is in the hole closer to the center you should have less of a sweep and further out more of a sweep... I think.

 

Orig Wiper Angles.jpg

Fab Wiper Angles.jpg

Bracket Angle.jpg

bracket installed.jpg

DS Tube.jpg

Driver Trans.jpg

Pass Trans.jpg

outside.jpg

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On 8/5/2020 at 6:58 AM, Lloyd said:

The biggest 6-12 volt converter I have found is rated at 20 amp.

That might be exactly what I’m looking for. Do you have a link, vendor name or anything? I’m trying keep most of my -6V original but upgrade lights and radio to 12V and add a wiper motor.

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Hey Dave,

You may need two converters. My Specialty Power Windows wiper motor is rated at max 20 amps so the 20 amp converter I will be using will be dedicated to just the wiper motor.  I spoke with SPW and they told me you can expect the motor to draw around 13 amps at max speed and under normal load conditions which they said was working two wiper arms. I bench tested the unit with the converter off my battery using a 15 amp fuse and it worked just fine. I'll be staying with the 15 amp fuse to begin with.

Another thought:

You might consider the Might Wiper Kit mentioned earlier, they have the 6 volt motors. If you research some of the reviews a lot of people had problems because of the nylon/plastic gears breaking or wearing. Which is why I didn't go that route.

Also - Blucarsdn mentioned the wipers on the 39 Station Wagons and convertibles are located on the cowl instead of the overhead. If you can find that set-up may be able to use it on the cowl of a 39. I don't know if the cowl vent is the same but looking at mine I don't see how the linkage could span across and get around it.

 

Heres the link to the SPW kit: 

http://www.specialtypowerwindows.com/products/2

 

This is the 20 amp converter I'll be using:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07TYSW1NQ

 

I used this pump, 10 amp converter and canister when I tried to get the vacuum wipers to work. I plumbed the pump to a vacuum canister along with intake vacuum. By itself the pump would not keep up with the wiper motors at all. It was a losing battle, didn't do anything really. It just didn't work. Leeds makes a vacuum pump they call the bandit which is intended for power brake systems. I believe that pump would have worked by itself without any manifold vacuum. -- $350..

There may be another one cheaper but from what I saw it needs to fall into the power brake booster category hot rod guys use when they put in a big cam. That way you can come off of any assist vacuum such as manifold or duel action fuel pump. It should be able to keep up with the wipers by itself. I even considered plumbing in a needle valve before the wiper motors to act as a variable speed switch.

 

Pump: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004A0UPQU

Converter: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B019GY2FLW

Canister: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07DT2ZDXJ

 

The main reason I'm trying to move away from the duel fuel pump is because I have a set of Langdons Stovebolt headers I will be installing. They will not fit with  the taller fuel pump. So just to allow for those it's taken me on a journey to say the least. But in any event if this cable drive system works it should give me some really decent wipers.

 

I got the cable drive installed today and mounted the converter. I had to mount the switch pointing straight down from the bottom of the dash. The back of the switch is really big, to big to fit behind the original switch bracket under the dash. I'm hoping to find another switch bracket that will resemble the original and mount it under the dash to the right of the existing bracket. I'll also be looking for a knob that will fit the switch and match the others. Been thinking about asking MoparPartsPro if he can make a knob. I mounted the converter behind the passenger kick panel. I'm a little concerned about heat dissipation behind the panel so once I get it going if it looks like the converter will get  hot I'll need to move it. Bad thing is this converter is not waterproof.

 

Converter.JPG

Edited by Lloyd
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Lloyd,

Wow! That looks like some nice work. Let me just say that I hope I don’t have to do that much on my car.

So my first question is does your voltage converter work with positive ground? If those two black wires are not isolated from each other (inside the converter) then your load would have to be isolated from ground. I should back up and ask if your vehicle is still positive ground; mine is. Also, is the converter case grounded? Or more to the point, is the converter “-“ grounded to the case?
For my wipers, I have a working linkage but I just need a more reliable motion source. I could use a 6V or 12V motor and connect it’s motion to what’s already there.

For my 12V converter, really what I need is 14V. I will be Using the converter to keep a small 12V battery charged and then run my other stuff from that. 

So my last question is about your converter. Does it always output 12V or is it doubling the input? Silly question since it’s labeled as 6-11V input, but I have to ask.

 

Thanks

Dave
 

 

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Just finished. It does work. I've attached some pics below.

 

Dave the converter works positive or negative ground. Just have to hook up the 6V input side accordingly. Positive is positive so on a positive ground system the 6 volt positive input wire coming from the converter goes to ground.

As for the output whatever you are running off the converter run the positive wire to the positive wire on the unit and the negative wire to the negative wire. If the unit has a chassis ground then you will have to insulate the unit from your car (and 6 volt system) and run the 12 volt negative wire from the converter to the unit chassis.

The converter case is not grounded.

As far as doubling the voltage your getting a little out of my field. But I don't believe it works that way. It says it can take anywhere from 6v-11v input but output says 12 volts 20 amps. So I would think input voltage needs to be within that range and if it is you will get 12 volts. If you need a 14 volt output then you should look for a converter that puts out 14 volts.

That's my opinion but maybe one of these other gurus would know better.

 

Attached some pics, the bottom of the motor assembly shows the hole I placed the bar in to get the right sweep.

IMG_2826.JPG.a68cfa3455dbeb8d39cac0108cd630bb.JPG

 

Converter mounted behind passenger kick panel area

IMG_2825.JPG.999bebe2d9685e03dd93ec8919dfb28c.JPG

 

In action

 

Next will be installing turn signals. Then seat belts.

Then I should be ready to get some tags and take her for a spin..

 

 

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