230 Crankshaft Pilot Bushing

[Cat Whisker]

I hope this has come up before but reading all I could find on previous threads did not provide an answer, other than drill out the end of the crank.

From 2010..

 

I inherited a 49 Plymouth (P-18) with a 52 Dodge 230 (D43) engine. The tranny is a 3 speed, column shift, non Fluid Drive. The crank has 8 bolts to the flywheel and fits fine with the starter. My problem is the pilot bushing. The book calls for a Mopar # 53298 which is a National # PB-286-HD. The crank has a .875 (7/8") bore/hole but the pilot bushing OD is .9375 (15/16"). The tranny shaft is .748 (almost 3/4") and the book calls for a .003 clearance.

 

 

Does anyone happen to have a part number for the correct Oilite bushing that would be 3/4 ID X 7/8 OD x 7/8 to 1" long with the proper interference fit into the crank too keep it from spinning?

 

I can, if need be, turn down the National bushing on a lathe but don't have any idea of the interference fit required. Too loose and it spins. Too tight and the ID gets crushed.

 

Many thanks in advance for any assistance.

Edited March 26, 2020 by Cat Whisker

[Sniper]

Mopar has used this pilot bushing till they went to a bearing pressed into the crank centering in the 90's.  Unfortunately that change doesn't retrofit to our stuff.

 

That said, NAPA used to sell an undersized pilot bushing for cranks that were in front of an automatic and not finish drilled for a pilot bushing.  Unfortunately, the dimensions were 915" O.D. .750" I.D. and .875" long, which is a non standard size.  In general I check Aircraft Spruce for stuff like oilite bushings.  But they don't list anything near the size you need.

 

While I am not a machinist I understand that oilite bushings require specific work to prevent them from no longer being self lubricating.  Odds are that since the work you need to do is external to the bushing it won't matter here.  Oilite does have some decent tech info online

 

Anyway, oilite AA838-07 seems to be what you need. 

 

https://oilite.com/products?view=partdetails&partid=1454&uom=Imperial&back=PS

 

Oilite has a pretty decent parts selector.   https://oilite.com/Our-Products

[Cat Whisker]

16 hours ago, Sniper said:

Mopar has used this pilot bushing till they went to a bearing pressed into the crank centering in the 90's.  Unfortunately that change doesn't retrofit to our stuff.

 

That said, NAPA used to sell an undersized pilot bushing for cranks that were in front of an automatic and not finish drilled for a pilot bushing.  Unfortunately, the dimensions were 915" O.D. .750" I.D. and .875" long, which is a non standard size.  In general I check Aircraft Spruce for stuff like oilite bushings.  But they don't list anything near the size you need.

 

While I am not a machinist I understand that oilite bushings require specific work to prevent them from no longer being self lubricating.  Odds are that since the work you need to do is external to the bushing it won't matter here.  Oilite does have some decent tech info online

 

Anyway, oilite AA838-07 seems to be what you need. 

 

https://oilite.com/products?view=partdetails&partid=1454&uom=Imperial&back=PS

 

Oilite has a pretty decent parts selector.   https://oilite.com/Our-Products

WOW. I don't how to thank you enough. The one you found and recommended should be a perfect fit. It's .001 oversize which should make for a tight fit. I ordered it today. With a drop or 2 of Loctite, that puppy isn't going anywhere.

 

Whoever in the past, put the bushing in, didn't do very well because I was able to remove it with my finger.  It had definitely wobbled around a bit but the tranny shaft is still OK.

I will keep the Oilite page marked as I'm always looking for a bushing for myself or neighbors. Many thanks again, I really appreciate it.

[Sniper]

Not a problem, I found it looking for oillite bushings to replace the felt washers in my wiper linkage.

[Matt Wilson]

On 3/26/2020 at 10:33 PM, Cat Whisker said:

WOW. I don't how to thank you enough. The one you found and recommended should be a perfect fit. It's .001 oversize which should make for a tight fit. I ordered it today. With a drop or 2 of Loctite, that puppy isn't going anywhere.

 

Whoever in the past, put the bushing in, didn't do very well because I was able to remove it with my finger.  It had definitely wobbled around a bit but the tranny shaft is still OK.

I will keep the Oilite page marked as I'm always looking for a bushing for myself or neighbors. Many thanks again, I really appreciate it.

I'm somewhat doubtful that Loctite will help for holding the bushing in place.  The Oilite is porous, and is pre-impregnated with oil, so In doubt any adhesive would help.  In fact, I suppose it's possible that the Loctite could migrate through the pores and into the inner diameter, where it would contact the transmission shaft, although I kinda doubt it would do that.  The inner and outer diameters are connected through the pores, though, so just be aware of that.  Some people recommend soaking the bushing in engine oil overnight before installing, just to be sure there's plenty of oil in it.  I've read that grease is not recomended.

[Ulu]

You can knurl the OD of the bushing a bit if it's still too loose.

[Cat Whisker]

11 hours ago, Matt Wilson said:

I'm somewhat doubtful that Loctite will help for holding the bushing in place.  The Oilite is porous, and is pre-impregnated with oil, so In doubt any adhesive would help.  In fact, I suppose it's possible that the Loctite could migrate through the pores and into the inner diameter, where it would contact the transmission shaft, although I kinda doubt it would do that.  The inner and outer diameters are connected through the pores, though, so just be aware of that.  Some people recommend soaking the bushing in engine oil overnight before installing, just to be sure there's plenty of oil in it.  I've read that grease is not recomended.

I didn't even think about that. Thanks. I have used Oilite bushings for many years for many things. I think it might of dawned on me when I started to apply Loctite to an oily surface. The bushing that Sniper recommended will be here Monday and it is .001 oversize and the bore in the end of the crank is very rough so it should be a tight fit. Thanks again.

 

[50mech]

I think if anything you'll find it to be closer to too tight and probably require a little reduction. Press fit for a .875 hole is .8745 to .8750. The OD on that runs .877-.878

[Cat Whisker]

44 minutes ago, 50mech said:

I think if anything you'll find it to be closer to too tight and probably require a little reduction. Press fit for a .875 hole is .8745 to .8750. The OD on that runs .877-.878

 

Many thanks for the response. You know what they say about learning from the past. Whenever I need or order something small, I always get twice the number required. Then multiply that by at least 2. In other words, I ordered 4 bushings. The current hole in the business end of the crank is a bit sloppy 7/8". I can fit some .875 round stock in it by hand. Not much slop, but goes in and out EZ enough. I'll test fit one and see what happens. If need be, I can trim some off another bushing.

 

Since the hole in the crank was never used by the factory because of the fluid drive, the previous owner(s) added a 4 bolt flywheel and a manual 3 speed. I was able to remove the old pilot bushing with just my finger. It was too chewed up to get any kind of measurement.

 

After reading some of the great info from this group, I also found my starter drive gear is only engaging the ring gear by mabey 3/16" if that. None of the teeth are worn much but they soon will be. I am going to mill off about .170 - .180 from the bellhousing for the starter to set deeper. The picture is from  Don Coatney (2012) of what he did to his. I thought about removing some from the starter nose, but it's already somewhat thin. 

 

Many thanks again.

 

[50mech]

Aww hell, you got a handle on it but good info for onlookers anyhow.

[Cat Whisker]

28 minutes ago, 50mech said:

Aww hell, you got a handle on it but good info for onlookers anyhow.

That "handle" you spoke of, came from some really nice people in this group. You included. There's no way I would of attempted this project without joining and reading info from this group first. Thanks again.

 

[Sniper]

I wish I had taken machine shop in HS, but between wood shop, auto shop and electrical shop I more than maxed out my trades classes for a person on the college track.  So other than learning how to turn round stock in the Navy I have no machinist experience.  Really shows when I have to fab something.

[Cat Whisker]

2 hours ago, Sniper said:

I wish I had taken machine shop in HS, but between wood shop, auto shop and electrical shop I more than maxed out my trades classes for a person on the college track.  So other than learning how to turn round stock in the Navy I have no machinist experience.  Really shows when I have to fab something.

 

Metal was drilled (pun) into me growing up as my father was a machinist for Diamond Chain. They made everything metal including chains for Caterpillars down to chains for wrist watches. Having a Bridgeport lathe, mill and other various tools at home meant we didn't usually need to buy something, but rather make it. 

 

I was Navy (69-91) also and did maintenance on crypto/computer equipment. A far cry for metal fab but I liked it. Retired in 91 and thanks to my husband, a real muscle car nut, we worked on and build many vehicles. Mostly street and strip machines. This 49 Plymouth is a real learning experience to say the least. Many thanks again for the assistance and information.

 

[Sniper]

I was in 83-93, electronics tech.  So I understand the electric side of things.  The mechanical I learned mostly from HS and not being able to afford a reliable car most of the time I was in.

[Boody]

Just wondering could you put a spacer behind the flywheel to bring it out a little bit more? I think I might have the same issue.

    Dave

[Boody]

Just thought about it I think that would bring it further away what was I thinking.

Dave