51 B3B build thread - after all these years

[Los_Control]

That is good to know the aprons are in a fixed location .... I was thinking there might be some adjustment to them.

 

I remember fussing with the front nose some and finally gave up and called it good enough for me .... I'm easy to get along with

On the inside passenger side opening is 15/16" gap, Driver side is just under 1/2" gap.

Yet the outside gaps are the same on both sides? ... I dunno.

I think this is what you are talking about?

 

It is possible that my cab is sitting tweaked .... I never loosened or removed it though.

There was a pretty good dent in the driver side rear cab corner I had to fix, and a stress crack in the floor in that corner I had to weld up. .... So maybe that whats wrong with mine ... cab got tweaked.

 

Or maybe Dodge was never very great with panel fitment and that's just the way they came? I have no idea.

Hope you get it .... let me know if the cab tweak fixes it.

[JBNeal]

14 hours ago, bkahler said:

...

It would be nice to see a video of someone removing and re-installing the splash panels...

 

additional information - inner fender removal

 

From the factory photos that I've seen in Bunn's books and my experience with OEM assembly work, more than likely the assembly line had alignment jigs on the ready at each stage of assembly.  We just have to get our single projects done and not truck after truck after truck like they did on the line...so the best approach is to kinda sit the big pieces in place on a best guess, then adjust as needed until we feel it's close enough, then start torquing everything down and hope for the best while checking sheet metal fit.

 

I should clarify that my suggestion is to set the inner fenders in place and maybe start 2 or 3 bolts on the fender ends.  If the inner fenders are blocking access to something, they can propped up out of the way without complete removal from the engine compartment.

[ggdad1951]

my 2 cents:

 

While WE care and want the rear wheel centered in the fender...doubt they cared that much back in the day.

 

IMO general order of assy was: frame, engine, trans, axles, cab, bed, rear fenders, running boards.....then all the little bits.  I highly doubt they based off the bed/rear fender.  Too much going on in the cab that needs alignment with the frame:  steering, pedals, etc.   Cab went on first and everything went off that.

 

[bkahler]

Los's comment about the two openings over the frame extensions in the lower nose piece being two different widths got me wondering if mine was the same way.  I measured them and it turns out the right side is 1/4" wider than the left side.  That explains a little of the centering issue of the nose with the frame extensions but I'm sure not all. 

 

I did try pivoting the cab to see if I could get the nose to move slightly and had zero success.  I'm of the opinion that the factory made whatever tweaks were necessary to get all of the pieces to bolt together.  For instance, the left side lower splash guard had and obviously enlarged hole on one of the bolt holes to get one of the bolts to line up.  I've decided I'm going to live with whatever discrepancies or oddities that might be present in the panel alignment.  Besides, I'm getting tired of working on it, I really want to drive it for a change!

 

With that in mind, I now have the running boards installed along with the front bumper.  Next task will be to re-tighten the cab bolts and tighten all the front fender and nose bolts.  After that will be the inner fender splash panels.  I'm not sure now why I was so concerned about when to install them.  At the time I asked the question, both fenders, nose and hood center section were already in place.  Chalk that one up to old age

 

[bkahler]

As mentioned in another thread, the splash panels are now installed.  I'll be assembling the hood sections in the near future and once it's installed the front end sheet metal of the truck will be done done.  I do have a little bit of electrical work up front and a few other small odds and ends but that's about it for the front.  Next task will be to wrap up the interior which is mostly just the interior trim panels. 

 

Looks like I'm going to have to get the title work done so I can get plates

 

 

 

 

I spent a few hours last week cleaning, removing the old paint, polishing and repainting the Job-Rated medallion.  I'm fairly happy with how it came out.  It's got it's share of blemishes but for a 75 year old chrome piece it's not to bad.

 

 

[bkahler]

Today was somewhat of a milestone day.  I installed the parking lights and got them connected, and they actually work

 

More importantly, the task that I had been dreading for a while was assembling and installing the hood pieces.  Fortunately I have a small gantry crane with an electric hoist that actually made the job somewhat anticlimactic.  I think from when I first started to slide the three pieces together to where the job was done totaled about 30 minutes or so.  What took the most time was figuring out which way the hood supports were supposed to be installed. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I need to know which side the hood support arm goes.  Is it in front of or behind the hood frame?

 

 

 

It's getting close to the point where I need to register and insure the truck so I can drive it....legally that is

 

[JBNeal]

I took a look at the untouched '51 and confirmed what I had seen earlier:

 

 

additional information - early B-3 hood support installation

Edited December 13 by JBNeal
added picture

[bkahler]

13 minutes ago, JBNeal said:

I took a look at the untouched '51 and confirmed what I had seen earlier:

 

 

additional information - early B-3 hood support installation

 

Thanks for the pic!  I'll get mine corrected tomorrow.

 

 

[ggdad1951]

1 hour ago, bkahler said:

More importantly, the task that I had been dreading for a while was assembling and installing the hood pieces.  Fortunately I have a small gantry crane with an electric hoist that actually made the job somewhat anticlimactic.  I think from when I first started to slide the three pieces together to where the job was done totaled about 30 minutes or so.  What took the most time was figuring out which way the hood supports were supposed to be installed. 

 

I need to know which side the hood support arm goes.  Is it in front of or behind the hood frame?

 

Cheater!

 

To quadruple check:  FEF's tear down pics have the arm on the grill side, PARTS and ART do as well.   Altho the direction of the tab seems to be inconsistant (which direction they spotted the bend).  So I'd agree, grill side.  Does it REALLY matter...likely not.

[bkahler]

1 hour ago, ggdad1951 said:

 

Cheater!

 

To quadruple check:  FEF's tear down pics have the arm on the grill side, PARTS and ART do as well.   Altho the direction of the tab seems to be inconsistant (which direction they spotted the bend).  So I'd agree, grill side.  Does it REALLY matter...likely not.

 

To be honest, it doesn't fit all that great on either side of the hood frame, but they are now both on the front side.

[bkahler]

Made some good progress the last couple of days, the bed is coming along nicely.  For the moment all of the mounting hardware is temporary.  I will be replacing each bolt one at a time with painted bolts, washers and nuts as needed depending on location. 

 

I do have one question.  The hinges for the tailgate have a outward taper to them.  Both have the same angle and looking closely at the hinges themselves it appears they were designed that way.  I looked back through a bunch of pictures that I've collected over the years and it would appear that other trucks have this same setup.  Can someone confirm that the hinges are indeed angled?  Thanks.

 

 

 

 

 

[Dave72dt]

I looked at mine just now.  Both straight across, parallel to the rear C channel.  Slide your tailgate on one side.  Assuming it fits reasonably, how far away is the other side from the bed?  From the angle in your pic, I'd say about 6+" away.

[ggdad1951]

No reason for them not to align, otherwise you will bind on your bottom tube.  When I did FEF, I did the trick with bushings and welding on a solid bar instead of the roll formed tube....not that I ever open the tailgate, LOL.  With the site changes I can't seem to locate those instructions I found here.  Maybe someone else will be able to.

[Dave72dt]

It was posted in DPETCA and with that gone, it's gone.  I found a reference to it in the FEF build.  As I recall a 3/4" bolt with the head cut off was welded in after the rolled section was removed and a bronze bushing fitted into the tailgate tube.

[bkahler]

10 hours ago, Dave72dt said:

I looked at mine just now.  Both straight across, parallel to the rear C channel.  Slide your tailgate on one side.  Assuming it fits reasonably, how far away is the other side from the bed?  From the angle in your pic, I'd say about 6+" away.

 

I was afraid that would be the case.  Both sides have the same angle.  

 

 

3 hours ago, ggdad1951 said:

No reason for them not to align, otherwise you will bind on your bottom tube.  When I did FEF, I did the trick with bushings and welding on a solid bar instead of the roll formed tube....not that I ever open the tailgate, LOL.  With the site changes I can't seem to locate those instructions I found here.  Maybe someone else will be able to.

 

At this stage I don't think I'll do any mods.  Mods would entail repainting the tail gate which is a problem at this point.  My painter moved back to Wisconsin and I'm not too thrilled with trying to find someone else to handle that work at this stage of the game.  Also, I'd really just like to get the truck done!

 

I unbolted the L brackets and removed the cross member.  The L brackets have a twist to them such that the hinges are angled rearward.  To add to the impact, the hinges themselves have an angle to them.  You can see in the attached picture what I'm talking about.  Add the two issues together and you get what I showed in the previous picture.

 

 

 

So....I just finished placing an order with DCM Classics for two new L brackets and a new pair of hinges.  When we had the paint mixed I had them fill a couple of spray cans so I have enough paint to spray the hinges and the L brackets.  

 

What this means is I'm now on hold working on the bed so I guess it's time to start installing the interior trim panels, or mill and cut the bed boards 

 

Thanks for the info.

 

 

[Los_Control]

Have you even tried installing them?

 

I admit mine looks a little goofy also, but the tail gate opens and closes just fine.

IIRC seems like they angled up when bolted flat .... I also had one that was rusted to the gate pretty bad and twisted the rolled tube when forced the gate open.

 

A little heat fixed that and when installed all works fine.

I do have a spare bed I could have taken the hinges off of .... preferred to use the ones that came with the truck as long as they worked. .... And they do.

[bkahler]

23 hours ago, Los_Control said:

Have you even tried installing them?

 

The hinges, yes.  The tail gate, no.

 

 

23 hours ago, Los_Control said:

I admit mine looks a little goofy also, but the tail gate opens and closes just fine.

IIRC seems like they angled up when bolted flat .... I also had one that was rusted to the gate pretty bad and twisted the rolled tube when forced the gate open.

 

A little heat fixed that and when installed all works fine.

I do have a spare bed I could have taken the hinges off of .... preferred to use the ones that came with the truck as long as they worked. .... And they do.

 

As Dave mentioned earlier, if the tailgate was placed into one of the hinges the other end of the tailgate would be about 6" from touching the other hinge.  I didn't like the idea of forcing the tailgate that much to try and get it in place.   

 

Something I didn't really point out or stress is the only piece from my bed that is original is the front panel by the cab.  The bed sides I got from Mark, the tailgate came from someone in Arizona, the lower rear cross piece is from DCM and the two rear vertical uprights (stake pockets) on the side panels have been replaced with reproduction pieces from I believe Mar-K (maybe Mark can answer that question).  What it boils down to is I'm assembly a bed from a mixture of pieces.

 

The hinges were my original hinges, but my original tail gate had been modified with a gate in it and was pretty beat up.  So what I'm trying to do now is make everything fit together.  I'm hoping by buying the new reproduction L brackets and reproduction hinges the parts will match up better.  It will probably be after Christmas before I have all the parts on hand to give it another try.

 

 

Edited December 19 by bkahler

[Dave72dt]

The bushings were a light press fit into the painted tailgate and the bar stock was a bolt welded into the hinge.  Minimum invasive and your spray cans will take care of the weld on the hinges.  You could also do a relief cut on the hinge, correct the alignment, weld and paint.  A small stub shaft inside the hinge if worried about strength.  Nothing would need to be done to the tailgate itself.  If you've had the stake pockets redone...... 

[bkahler]

5 minutes ago, Dave72dt said:

The bushings were a light press fit into the painted tailgate and the bar stock was a bolt welded into the hinge.  Minimum invasive and your spray cans will take care of the weld on the hinges.  You could also do a relief cut on the hinge, correct the alignment, weld and paint.  A small stub shaft inside the hinge if worried about strength.  Nothing would need to be done to the tailgate itself.  If you've had the stake pockets redone...... 

 

The hinge change sounds nice and appears to be something I can do in the future since only the hinges are really impacted. 

 

Anyone out there have any pictures of this change?

 

For the time being, I'll stick with the original setup.  Like Mark said, the tailgate may never be opened once it's in place!

[Dave72dt]

I don't recall anyone mentioning they did the conversion.  Pics Mark had are gone unless he has some archived and can repost.  I don't think the new parts are going to solve the issue.  The second option I listed will still work and you can do that while waiting for the new parts to arrive.  Those hinges already have a weak spot right where it transitions into the rolled tube. A little slice to weaken them more, bend, weld.

[Los_Control]

Think Dave has a good idea.

One advantage to fixing yours is they are already painted .... possible to straighten yours without damaging the paint or maybe just a little touch up.

 

I remember your bed was pretty rough and needed lots of replacement parts.

Seems the hinges can bend fairly easy with abuse .... not too much effort needed to bend them back.

And they should last unless you want to start hauling grain in it again.

[ggdad1951]

18 hours ago, Dave72dt said:

The bushings were a light press fit into the painted tailgate and the bar stock was a bolt welded into the hinge.  Minimum invasive and your spray cans will take care of the weld on the hinges.  You could also do a relief cut on the hinge, correct the alignment, weld and paint.  A small stub shaft inside the hinge if worried about strength.  Nothing would need to be done to the tailgate itself.  If you've had the stake pockets redone...... 

Yah, I epoxied the bushings in the bottom tube and did the post weld in far enought you can't see it, so mininmal impact for a huge function gain.   I'll try to find the pics I have and repost.

[bkahler]

DCM shipped the parts and it looks like delivery will be Saturday.  If that works out there's a chance I'll have the bed assembled by Christmas, that would make for a nice Christmas present

 

Someday I may do the hinge mod using my original on hinges, for the time being I'd like to put it back to stock so I can drive it.  I'm sure there will be a bunch of things that I'll need/want to upgrade or fix once I have it on the road.  For now, I just need to get it on the road....29 years is a long time to wait to drive.

 

 Next question, is it better to have the rear fenders installed before lifting the bed onto the truck or after lifting the bed onto the truck?

[Dave72dt]

You have to lift it higher with the fenders on to clear tires.  With your gantry that's not an issue.  Fenders still need to be fit to the running boards.  On and loose or off.  Either will work.

[bkahler]

42 minutes ago, Dave72dt said:

You have to lift it higher with the fenders on to clear tires.  With your gantry that's not an issue.  Fenders still need to be fit to the running boards.  On and loose or off.  Either will work.

 

I hadn't thought about the fender clearance possibility.  My gantry crane may or may not be able to lift high enough.  I haven't figured out how to rig it yet for lifting so that will determine max lift height.  I think I'll leave the fenders off out of caution, with my luck I'd find away to dent them while performing the lift.

 

Thanks.