replacing timing chain

[Los_Control]

Wondering what I might be getting into here, if any have advice.

Motor runs good, but there is a ticking noise, sounds like a lifter, using a highly technical stick of wood, noise seems to be coming from the timing cover area.

 

My only goal with the truck is to repair it, catch up on 30 years backlog of maintenance, and drive it. I am not restoring it.

I suspect after 1 or 2 years, maybe sooner, I will want to pull the engine and do rings, bearings, seals, valves etc ....

 

Something tells me, I should at least look at the chain now, to see what is causing the noise, probably replace the chain and gears.

I also think, for the miles I will put on it, it would probably be fine until I do pull the engine.

 

Question's I have,

What could cause the noise? Is there something specific on these motors where it is a common issue?

I once had a old (1977) Toyota pickup, the timing chain stretched so far, it slapped a hole in the side of the timing chain cover.

So a stretched chain is the only cause for the noise that I know of .... is there something else?

 

What am I getting into here?

I need to buy a socket large enough to remove the nut on the pulley ... probably be 3/4" drive and only have 1/2" tools

Block of wood and a jack under the engine to support the weight, will the old pan hold up?

Will I need a puller to remove the bottom pulley, or will it slide off with help?

 

If this was a sbc or a ford, toyota, I would dive right in, old mopars like brakes for example, they have their own ways of doing things.

Just asking if any gotcha's while attempting this.

You can see from the photo I am already there .... I have to pull the water pump any ways, I cleaned the cooling system and have a cardboard "get me by" gasket that leaks. Had the pump on and off a few times, now time to mount it permanent.

 

 

 

[Plymouthy Adams]

did  you rule out the fuel pump as a source as it is near the front cover also....

[Merle Coggins]

Yes, you will need a puller to remove the pulley. Be careful not to run the puller bolts to deep into the pulley. There's not much room behind it and you can end up driving the bolts into the seal area. Place a board under the front of the oil pan and jack up the engine so you can remove the front mount. Since you'll have the water pump off you can then just remove the front cover. Keep in mind you will disturb the oil pan gasket where it seals against the bottom of the front cover. You may need to replace the front section of oil pan gasket at minimum.

 

However, before I tore all that apart I might verify that the noise isn't coming from the fuel pump.

[Los_Control]

4 minutes ago, Plymouthy Adams said:

did  you rule out the fuel pump as a source as it is near the front cover also....

I think so, I have replaced the fuel pump with one from Napa, and noise has not changed.

Noise could be cam shaft related?

 

What I can do now, go ahead and start it back up, with no fan belt. This will eliminate water pump and genny also.

Going to try that now, have the battery out so take a few min to test.

 

 

 

[Plymouthy Adams]

the fact that the cam operates the fuel pump is why mentioned the transfer of sound to the timing cover.  If you have some wear of the cam you can change pumps till cows come home and still have the bump condition that effectively making the noise...a rule out would entail running off an external pump in this case to eliminate the pump/cam as suspect.

 

timing gear when running and the added resistance of the valve train loading the cam lobes would keep slack out of the chain....also the oil pump loads the camshaft for added resistance...any timing chain slap will be heard on decel as the crank unloads.

Edited August 21, 2019 by Plymouthy Adams

[Los_Control]

I can do that, pull the pump and block it somehow with some cardboard or such ... gravity feed the carb?

Seems for a test it would work .... going to try as is first, if still noise then try the above.

[Los_Control]

Ok results from this test.

Now it sounds like a valve, and specifically #2, which is the one cylinder that was low on compression, but has been improving the more it runs.

 

I sure hope you guys do not get to mad at me, we all learn as we go, and sometimes just talking about it gets us going in the right direction.

 

Amazing how far sound travels, but running it without the belt really made the difference.

 

Next question would be:

Seems like I need to adjust the valves.

I do need to change the valve cover gaskets anyways ... something in the back of my head is telling me, run this motor a bit first, let the valves clean the seats best they will, then do adjustment.

Truck was claimed to be sitting 10 years, I think it is over 15 years it has been sitting.

 

I think the valve adjustment wont be today, will be another post for another day.

[Plymouthy Adams]

you may wish to try to clean that suspect valve guide when the cover is off and running...just be careful of volatile solvent in the vicinity of the exhaust manifold.  If you pressures are fluctuating on this cylinder could be a gummed up lifter...you homing in on it now.....

[Merle Coggins]

Low compression on that cylinder that has been improving with more run time and a ticking valve... sounds like a sticky valve, hence the valve guide cleaning mentioned by Tim. If it is sticking and not returning fast enough, or not closing fully, that could cause your noise. Once you get the covers off you could crank over the engine and watch the valve movement to see how it returns. Although at manual cranking speeds it may be able to close, but at running speeds it may lag behind. Spray some lube/solvent up on the stem and let it work up into the guide as the engine cranks over. Since you could run the engine as it sits now (hopefully not long without coolant flow) you could spray down the valve stem/guide while running to see if it frees up.

Edited August 21, 2019 by Merle Coggins

[Los_Control]

 

30 minutes ago, Plymouthy Adams said:

you may wish to try to clean that suspect valve guide when the cover is off and running...just be careful of volatile solvent in the vicinity of the exhaust manifold.  If you pressures are fluctuating on this cylinder could be a gummed up lifter...you homing in on it now.....

The side covers have thumb screws holding them on, and PO has all kinds of silicone squirted around them to seal them ... why I need to pull and clean.

I have been spraying pb blaster on the intake/exhaust bolts ... hoping to remove the manifolds.

 

This is my issue, I am trying to not get to distracted and wander into the weeds, then step into the rabbit hole and not get out.

I kinda have a plan to get this truck on the road, is 3 stages, I am on stage 1.

 

Stage 1:  clean, paint, grease, new brakes cowl forward.

 

Stage 2: Back the truck into the driveway, remove the bed, clean, paint grease, brakes,  seals, repair floors and cab and bed.

Get it licensed and insured and driving.

Stage 2 is a big project, but the truck is really not that bad, so it will be work but not terrible.

 

Stage 3: is actually a lifetime project of just keeping it running and driving, including upgrades on the drivetrain as needed, stage 3 never ends.

 

This is my idea of eating a elephant one bite at a time .... so easy to get distracted and end up with a pile of parts in the driveway.

 

With my disability and the drugs the Doctors had me on, This is a exercise to recovery. I really do not trust myself to do it right, yank it to the frame and put it back together.

So one bite at a time.... Just saying, I understand frustration and "why dont you just do it right the first time" I have my reasons.

I just simply do not  trust my mental capacity to put it back together.

Just worried if I start on this engine now, I will end up in a rabbit hole.

Yet I am pleased with my recovery in the last few years, after telling the DR's to go visit Hades.  For a few years, I could not remember my phone #.

 

 

 

[Los_Control]

1 hour ago, Merle Coggins said:

Low compression on that cylinder that has been improving with more run time and a ticking valve... sounds like a sticky valve, hence the valve guide cleaning mentioned by Tim. If it is sticking and not returning fast enough, or not closing fully, that could cause your noise. Once you get the covers off you could crank over the engine and watch the valve movement to see how it returns. Although at manual cranking speeds it may be able to close, but at running speeds it may lag behind. Spray some lube/solvent up on the stem and let it work up into the guide as the engine cranks over. Since you could run the engine as it sits now (hopefully not long without coolant flow) you could spray down the valve stem/guide while running to see if it frees up.

Thanks Merle, I will try that and see if it improves.

My first no, no is running detergent oil ... I will have to drop the pan and clean it. This truck has never had a oil filter installed.

Just trying to stay out of the weeds,  one thing leads to another and the next thing  is .... I can try the spray oil and see if it helps ....

[Merle Coggins]

1 hour ago, Los_Control said:

 

Stage 1:  clean, paint, grease, new brakes cowl forward.

 

Stage 2: Back the truck into the driveway, remove the bed, clean, paint grease, brakes,  seals, repair floors and cab and bed.

Get it licensed and insured and driving.

Stage 2 is a big project, but the truck is really not that bad, so it will be work but not terrible.

 

Stage 3: is actually a lifetime project of just keeping it running and driving, including upgrades on the drivetrain as needed, stage 3 never ends.

 

This is my idea of eating a elephant one bite at a time .... so easy to get distracted and end up with a pile of parts in the driveway.

 

With my disability and the drugs the Doctors had me on, This is a exercise to recovery. I really do not trust myself to do it right, yank it to the frame and put it back together.

So one bite at a time.... Just saying, I understand frustration and "why dont you just do it right the first time" I have my reasons.

I just simply do not  trust my mental capacity to put it back together.

Just worried if I start on this engine now, I will end up in a rabbit hole.

Yet I am pleased with my recovery in the last few years, after telling the DR's to go visit Hades.  For a few years, I could not remember my phone #.

 

 

 

 

This is actually a good plan for anyone, regardless of health conditions. Especially those with limited shop space and technical ability.

Good plan.

[Los_Control]

1 hour ago, Merle Coggins said:

 

This is actually a good plan for anyone, regardless of health conditions. Especially those with limited shop space and technical ability.

Good plan.

Thank you . I thought so, just so easy to get off in the weeds and then wonder what hit you.

[Merle Coggins]

2 hours ago, Los_Control said:

 

Stage 3: is actually a lifetime project of just keeping it running and driving, including upgrades on the drivetrain as needed, stage 3 never ends.

 

 

I've been at Stage 3 for about 12 years now. There always seems to be something to tinker with, when time allows... ?

[Veemoney]

Los,

You have a good plan and are making good progress. There is always new discovery when pulling an old car apart that can lead to some unplanned worked but you seem to be keeping it in check.

 

I have multiple projects that I pulled apart or purchased that are still stored in boxes to come back to at a later date. I find each to be learning experience as well as akin to a jigsaw puzzle where you carefully review each piece as you assemble and take some satisfaction throughout assembly and when it is complete.