1951 Meadowbrook 318 conversion advise

[mccoymail]

All - 

Pretty new here and to pre 65  Mopars so I'm hoping to gather some good advise and knowledge from you all.  I've taken on a 51 Meadowbrook project that I'm playing with and have some questions that I can't seem to find any answers.  Currently I'm working with getting the frame solid.  I've installed disc brakes and an 8-3/4 that I had laying around from my Charger.  I've replaced the front and rear springs as well as rebuilt the kingpins.  I've purchased an engine/trans adapter kit from Butch's and plan on a R&P conversion as well.  I have a 318/904 combo that I want to install with this kit.  

 

My issues:

New rear springs are making the rear sit HIGH.  I know they will settle some over time and I've set the body back on the frame to see if that helps but it hasn't yet.  May have to do a lowering kit.  This is not a huge issue but just wanted to give you that info. 

 

New front springs from Detriot are too stiff.  Even with the body and engine weight the springs are still buried on the upper control arm bump stops.  Do I need to cut these springs?

 

Bigger issues:

 

I've mocked the motor in and I'm needing advise on placement.  Seems to be too low and still leaning back.  I can raise the tranny some but that is the one thing with the Butch's kit that I know I have per instructions.  The trans crossmember is level with the bottom of the frame as instructed.  Other issue is that if I lower the engine further, I'm concerned about the R&P hitting the pan, which it already is.  

 

That's problem #2.  my rack is interfering with my oil pan,  Do I need to raise the engine more or replace the pan.  Seems to me that I need a rear sump pan but I'm hoping someone else will tell me for sure.  I haven't installed the R&P yet because I'm wanting to cut the springs to get the proper ride height and geometry.  Don't want to cut the springs until I can get the weight of the motor permanently on the frame.  Don't want to install the motor until I get the rack in!!!  See my catch 22?  

 

So if someone else had done this and can save me the design headache, I'd love to talk to you or get some pictures and advice.  

 

Thanks!!!

 

[Plymouthy Adams]

you still got fun ahead of you with the pump length, addition of any fan and radiator location to the front....then as always, you have your hood support  with forward rad mount to contend with....and if you add an AC condenser the fun intensifies.....Headers are an issue in cars where this engine is stock...you definitely have issues with the insertion in yet an smaller compartment....where small is typically the inner fender design.  Lot of cut and weld here if you wish to retain the inner fenders...many make it a fair weather car and forego the added time and cost.  Look to the truck for oil pan with the R&P you using.......I personally would have gone truck cast iron dumps also...but that is just me....I also would have clipped the front with a modern Dodge setup and garnered bigger disc, R&P, very nice sway bar and host of other refinements and hundreds of dollars saved in the process but even with that, retro to this body that IS NOT cab forward requires you make you own mounts yet to position the engine and tranny....you are pretty much locked in to continue this build in said fashion of which there is nothing wrong with that approach...I do think you need to look at the truck rear sump and then positioning the rack will fall in place...from there...is just shape and fit sheet metal as needed.  I think you have addressed the chassis pretty well with upgrades...

Edited December 10, 2018 by Plymouthy Adams

[mccoymail]

Thanks for the reply.  

Just to clarify for some of your comments:

I will NOT be using the headers with this car, they are just on the motor in the picture for the run stand purposes.  I will be looking for cast iron manifolds. 

This car did not come with inner fenders so unless I can find some, I'll have to fab something myself. 

 

 

 

Edited December 10, 2018 by mccoymail

[Plymouthy Adams]

center dumps from the donor truck engine that will provide the rear sump pan......or you can use two right manifolds off most any car application and remove the heat riser and tap and plug the shaft holes....I suggest a later style starter motor, just as powerful, just a smaller foot print...odds are you will not need a heat shield with the application...though, they never hurt anything being in place, totally your call.  Remove you parts request or face possible deletion of your entry.  Asking for parts on open forum is against the rules.....you need to place a parts wanted ad in the appropriate column this forum.

[Plymouthy Adams]

am looking at the wooden block at the cowl mount points....this body requires that this point be metal to metal connection and is done by means of a tapered insert nutted from below.  The purpose is to prevent any body shift to frame and allow you to adjust the doghouse with fear of it shifting during operation of the vehicle...

[mccoymail]

done.

 

 

[mccoymail]

Blocks are not permanent.  No worries there.

[YukonJack]

On some models rear sump truck oil pan is needed.

[mrwrstory]

Great project!

New springs will be waaay tall.  They will settle some.  Understand that cutting a coil or so while lowering some will also stiffen the ride.  And your 318/904 probably weighs a little less and the center of that weight will be further to the rear.  I'd suggest start with the stock springs and cut from there.

Also respect the location of the stock core support and look at mounting the radiator on the front side for more engine clearance.  

And, and,....don't be afraid to mount the engine off center if need be for steering/manifold clearance.  Mopar did that for years and nobody notices.

Keep the pics comin.  We love pics!

[mccoymail]

Thanks mrwrstory - 

 

I've decided to take out the springs and mock up the ride height to install the rack.  I can cut the springs later when i get more back together.  I found a rear sump pan for the motor and will get that installed this weekend.  Hopefully the rack and motor will go in together fine; i think it will.  Appreciate the heads up on the radiator mounting.  Don't have a radiator yet, so that will be another day to tackle that.  

 

Fully aware of the motor offset.  Not my first Mopar rodeo but appreciate all the advice anyhow.  I think I may have some center dump manifolds in the barn from another project.  Have to do some digging.  You want more pics???

[mccoymail]

Baby number 1 and 2

[Andydodge]

So, let me guess..........mopar is just a passing fad to you...........lol...........Welcome aboard from Oz........, I was going to mention that you may find that the sump maybe able to be swapped, front to back.......at least thats what I did when I built my 1940 Dodge with the 318 Poly back in 1973, had to add and modify the sump rear anyway so I did this as I also have the engine mounted quite low in the frame and am using a rack & pinion..........anyway looks like you are getting the hang of the swap............regards, Andy Douglas.

[mccoymail]

Thanks Andy - 

 

Every little bit of info helps.  I currently have the engine sitting where the bottom of the mounts have one tab flush with the bottom of the frame and the other tab is below the frame.  It looks fine but again, just looking for insight from others.  

 

Yeah, Mopar is a passing fad - Just hasn't passed in the past 20 years!!

[wayfarer]

If you are keeping the steering shaft in its stock location then you will likely need a drivers side exhaust manifold for an A body.

 

Nice '65  btw.

Edited December 11, 2018 by wayfarer

[vintage6t]

I know for Fords of the same vintage it is common to use an Ford Aerostar spring to lower and maintain handling. Here is one post from this site using the same application on a Mopar.

Aerostar Spring

[wayfarer]

19 hours ago, vintage6t said:

I know for Fords of the same vintage it is common to use an Ford Aerostar spring to lower and maintain handling. Here is one post from this site using the same application on a Mopar.

Aerostar Spring

Good read. 

I'll suggest that instead of cutting a turn off of the coil that one might reverse the lower spring mounting plate instead. 

My one spring replacement job seem to be easier by removing the bottom plate and installing spring and plate together.

[mccoymail]

Interested in the bottom plate flip. Anyone have any photos of this?

[mccoymail]

No one has pictures?

[wayfarer]

Sorry, I didn't take any...long time ago.

The bottom plate sits on top of the lower A-arm, riveted in place. Remove the plate and bolt it to the bottom of the A-arm.

 

IIRC there have been some photos posted but no clue which thread.

[mrwrstory]

If you just look at the A--arm it's pretty obvious.  One of those "damn, that's too easy".

[mccoymail]

On 12/14/2018 at 10:43 AM, mrwrstory said:

If you just look at the A--arm it's pretty obvious.  One of those "damn, that's too easy".

I must be an idiot. If I put it on the bottom of the a arm, I either have to install the plate upside down (which puts the spring cup upside down) or grind the lip off. And the bump stop will be wrong. 

[58prostreet]

Are you keeping the stock brake pedal or are you going to swing pedal? I'm getting ready  to do a 360/ A518 swap in my "52 Wayfarer and I think I will keep the stock brake pedal. Will follow your post.

Thanks

Bob

[wayfarer]

On 12/15/2018 at 8:17 AM, mccoymail said:

I must be an idiot. If I put it on the bottom of the a arm, I either have to install the plate upside down (which puts the spring cup upside down) or grind the lip off. And the bump stop will be wrong. 

 

...time for a little old school hotrodding at this point....how about a piece of ½ x 1 bar stock to fill the space at the lip and 

another 'stand-off' for the rubber or, a small plate on the top side of the a-arm for the rubber....?

[mccoymail]

Yeah - I can do that, just wasn't sure if I was overthinking it.  The "Remove the plate and bolt it to the bottom of the A-arm." comment had me pondering my intelligence.

 

 

[mccoymail]

Haven't done the spring thing yet but did make some progress.  The body was on for mock up to ensure clearance wasn't an issue for steering, motor, tranny, etc.