Residual Valve redundancy? Scarebird

[Adam H P15 D30]

Also, that reservoir is small, make sure to keep an eye on the fluid as the calipers fill.

[48ply1stcar]

3 hours ago, Adam H P15 D30 said:

Also, that reservoir is small, make sure to keep an eye on the fluid as the calipers fill.

I'll try again tomorrow.

[Edward Garcia]

delete

 

Edited April 7, 2020 by Edward Garcia

[Edward Garcia]

On 4/1/2020 at 11:13 PM, 40desoto said:

Hey Edward, what caliper mounting plate are you using on your front disk conversion?  Are you also going with disk in the rear?  

 

brackets.pdf

[48ply1stcar]

On 4/6/2020 at 1:55 PM, Adam H P15 D30 said:

No problem bleeding the brakes....  Try removing the lines at the master cylinder and use your fingers to seal the holes while you have someone in the car slowly cycling the brake pedal, kind of like an on car bench bleed.  Is there pressure?  Check the holes at the bottom of the reservoir for obstructions, use a wire to clean them out.  Was there any crud in the bore of the master cylinder when you took the rear cap off to remove the valve?  I sprayed some crap out of mine while I was there. 

 

I plugged the hose outlets, much easier with only two hands. Filled the MC and pushed the brake pedal until the reservoir was fill and the brake pedal was high and firm.  That's all I did after going to three part stores to buy the plugs, 15 minutes of work today. 

Edited April 8, 2020 by 48ply1stcar

[Adam H P15 D30]

14 hours ago, 48ply1stcar said:

 

I plugged the hose outlets, much easier with only two hands. Filled the MC and pushed the brake pedal until the reservoir was fill and the brake pedal was high and firm.  That's all I did after going to three part stores to buy the plugs, 15 minutes of work today. 

That's 15 minutes more work than I got done on my projects

I always do the disc brakes first as they take the most fluid.  One trick I have learned is to NOT pump the brake pedal but slow movements full stroke until you get good fluid at the bleeders.  Keep an eye on that reservoir level..

Edited April 8, 2020 by Adam H P15 D30

[48ply1stcar]

Another issue.  I have a leak at the hose to caliper and I can't tighten it enouch to stop the leak.  Break time on I'll try different washers.

NOTE:  I used two left front brake hoses and I can't get the right one to stop leaking could that be the issue?

[Adam H P15 D30]

31 minutes ago, 48ply1stcar said:

Another issue.  I have a leak at the hose to caliper and I can't tighten it enouch to stop the leak.  Break time on I'll try different washers.

NOTE:  I used two left front brake hoses and I can't get the right one to stop leaking could that be the issue?

No, hoses don't care which side they are mounted on.  When you remove it to replace the washers, inspect the caliper casting carefully for burrs or damage that might be causing the washers to not seal.  You could also heat the washers with a propane torch till you see the copper start to turn color then let them cool slowly.  I've seen some pretty hard washers before and done this a few times.

Make sure to take a good look at the washers you remove to check the impression left from being compressed.

[Sniper]

Years ago I ran into a similar issue.  This was on a stock brake setup replacing a stock application hose.  The supplied washers ended up being too thin and we were unable to tighten the banjo bolt (it bottoms out) enough to properly crush the sealing washer and seal.  Thicker sealing washers did the trick.  But back then Pep Boys had a selection in the store you could choose from.  Might take the old one to NAPA and see if they can set you up.

[48ply1stcar]

I thought of a shorter bolt and different washers.  But, before that I flip over the hose and it worked.  We'll see tomorrow if I still have brakes.  Thanks for everybody's help.

 

[40desoto]

On 4/5/2020 at 7:40 PM, Edward Garcia said:

here is the link

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/p15-d24-to-95-2001-explorer-disk-conversion.702258/page-4

Thank you Edward, amazing work.  Suprisingly the moderators over at the HAMB didnt get upset at you for posting something so "Non Traditional"

 

 

 

[Edward Garcia]

5 minutes ago, 40desoto said:

Thank you Edward, amazing work.  Suprisingly the moderators over at the HAMB didnt get upset at you for posting something so "Non Traditional"

 

 

 

they were supportive on the other link. like to see your post on that link.

[Edward Garcia]

On 4/8/2020 at 7:11 AM, Adam H P15 D30 said:

That's 15 minutes more work than I got done on my projects

I always do the disc brakes first as they take the most fluid.  One trick I have learned is to NOT pump the brake pedal but slow movements full stroke until you get good fluid at the bleeders.  Keep an eye on that reservoir level..

 

On 4/8/2020 at 12:08 PM, Sniper said:

Years ago I ran into a similar issue.  This was on a stock brake setup replacing a stock application hose.  The supplied washers ended up being too thin and we were unable to tighten the banjo bolt (it bottoms out) enough to properly crush the sealing washer and seal.  Thicker sealing washers did the trick.  But back then Pep Boys had a selection in the store you could choose from.  Might take the old one to NAPA and see if they can set you up.

 

 

Adam or Sniper  if you are around. I cannot get any pressure at ALL. New rubber washers, remove residual rubber, replaced the metal cup back in and still NO pressure, either on or off the car???

Any idea

 

Thanks

[Sniper]

You have to bleed the master cylinder first, I have a hard line I made up that screws into the output port of the master cylinder and dumps back into the reservoir.  Then I slowly pump the pedal till all the air is out of the master cylinder.  Then I connect the brake line and proceed to bleed the lines.  With a single outlet master cylinder everything needs to have all the air out before you feel pressure, it can take some doing.  I pressure bleeder really helps there, you will probably have to fab up your own adapter though.

 

link to various pressure bleeders 

[Adam H P15 D30]

^^^^^Exactly as Sniper said, if you don’t bleed the master cylinder first you will never get a pedal. I disconnected the lines at the back of the master cylinder and had my son depress the brake pedal. Plugged the holes from the lines with my fingers when he let up. Repeated until I had a good solid stream of fluid. Reconnected the lines and went to the front brakes first. Keep an eye on that fluid level. 

[48ply1stcar]

I used plugs to bleed the master cylinder. I did it from above with floor removed, it was easier for me.

[Edward Garcia]

On 4/19/2020 at 2:44 PM, Sniper said:

You have to bleed the master cylinder first, I have a hard line I made up that screws into the output port of the master cylinder and dumps back into the reservoir.  Then I slowly pump the pedal till all the air is out of the master cylinder.  Then I connect the brake line and proceed to bleed the lines.  With a single outlet master cylinder everything needs to have all the air out before you feel pressure, it can take some doing.  I pressure bleeder really helps there, you will probably have to fab up your own adapter though.

 

link to various pressure bleeders 

 

On 4/19/2020 at 3:52 PM, Adam H P15 D30 said:

^^^^^Exactly as Sniper said, if you don’t bleed the master cylinder first you will never get a pedal. I disconnected the lines at the back of the master cylinder and had my son depress the brake pedal. Plugged the holes from the lines with my fingers when he let up. Repeated until I had a good solid stream of fluid. Reconnected the lines and went to the front brakes first. Keep an eye on that fluid level. 

Adam, so when i press pedal down, I dont cover the holes until the rebound stroke? 

Also Sniper, when you run the lines back into bowl, do the lines go into fluid or just squirt back into bowl? 

When i press pedal no fluid squirts out however on the rebound stroke, fluid will leak out?? Really seems like there is a bad seal but i know that is not the case. 

[Sniper]

I usually put the outlet below the fluid to minimize splash.  But if nothing is coming out when you press the pedal then the M/C is suspect.  It shouldn't take many strokes to get fluid coming out, 4 or 55 at most and a few more to clear the bubbles.

[Adam H P15 D30]

@Edward Garcia Yes, I made a mess and let the fluid squirt out while the pedal was depressed, plugging the holes on the return.  As sniper said above, only take a few pumps.

Was the bore in the master cylinder clean when you took the plug out?  Did you check for gunk in there?

[Sniper]

I  meant 4 or 5, not 55, lol.  pumping slowly helps minimize the mess, especially if you have a line feeding it back into the reservoir.

[Edward Garcia]

14 hours ago, Sniper said:

I usually put the outlet below the fluid to minimize splash.  But if nothing is coming out when you press the pedal then the M/C is suspect.  It shouldn't take many strokes to get fluid coming out, 4 or 55 at most and a few more to clear the bubbles.

 

 

The master worked with ALL drum brakes, just NOT good. If i put hoses in fluid, it siphons back into line.

 

12 hours ago, Adam H P15 D30 said:

@Edward Garcia Yes, I made a mess and let the fluid squirt out while the pedal was depressed, plugging the holes on the return.  As sniper said above, only take a few pumps.

Was the bore in the master cylinder clean when you took the plug out?  Did you check for gunk in there?

 

Cylinder is SUPER clean. even blew out with Air. No gunk.  

 

Thinking i need to "bench" bleed with hoses in fluid. I do have a pressure bleeder so when i get the MC working ill be able to bleed brakes pretty easy. Famous last words. LOLThanks

[Plymouthy Adams]

16 hours ago, Sniper said:

I usually put the outlet below the fluid to minimize splash.  But if nothing is coming out when you press the pedal then the M/C is suspect.  It shouldn't take many strokes to get fluid coming out, 4 or 55 at most and a few more to clear the bubbles.

 

if you don't have fluid by stoke 55...you need a rest anyway

[48ply1stcar]

Have you tried using plugs.  It worked almost instantly for me.

 

[Sniper]

9 hours ago, Edward Garcia said:

 

 

The master worked with ALL drum brakes, just NOT good. If i put hoses in fluid, it siphons back into line.

 

 If you don't then you suck air back into the line.  Sounds like you are missing a residual pressure valve if you are siphoning back into the line when bleeding the master.

[Adam H P15 D30]

1 hour ago, Sniper said:

 If you don't then you suck air back into the line.  Sounds like you are missing a residual pressure valve if you are siphoning back into the line when bleeding the master.

Yes, the residual pressure valve is removed as part of the disc brake upgrade.  It's a non-issue