Voltage regulator interchangeablility (and other questions)

[thebeebe5]

Anyone know if a VRD-4002-A regulator can be replaced by a VRR-4003-A regulator?  I see listings online claiming the 4003 fits my '37 P4, but the 4002 is what's on it now.  I'm having an issue with intermittent regulating.  Needle goes to roughly 10 amps charge, then back to zero, and spends most of it's time on the zero...  ?

When I fired the car up after the year it took me to rebuild the engine it stuck on discharge and drained the battery without my being aware.  A light tap freed up whatever point was stuck inside, but now I'm not regularly regulating.... 

Edited August 24, 2018 by thebeebe5

[Merle Coggins]

Maybe you just need to open it up and clean up the contact points with a points file. Sounds like one of them is sticking, or making intermittent contact.

[thebeebe5]

29 minutes ago, Merle Coggins said:

Maybe you just need to open it up and clean up the contact points with a points file. Sounds like one of them is sticking, or making intermittent contact.

 

On my to-do list for sure, but in case it doesnmt clear the problem I’d like to know what replacement is viable. 

[Plymouthy Adams]

I looked in my books (1935-1955) here to see if the specs...the 4002 was not found..but looking at other models, the primary difference is the carbon resistors and the coil winding count and this relates to the amperage with most overlapping an amp or two but cutting out at different max currents.   Maybe if you knew the exact application of the one in question a closer study of their characteristics could be made.

Edited August 24, 2018 by Plymouthy Adams

[thebeebe5]

1 hour ago, Plymouthy Adams said:

I looked in my books (1935-1955) here to see if the specs...the 4002 was not found..but looking at other models, the primary difference is the carbon resistors and the coil winding count and this relates to the amperage with most overlapping an amp or two but cutting out at different max currents.   Maybe if you knew the exact application of the one in question a closer study of their characteristics could be made.

 

Ebay listings for the 4003 claim it covers 37-39 plymouth, 1940 dodge, fargo 

and various other makes right around the 37-40 range.  

 

I did just find this listing at mopar mall seeming to indicate it as a similar item or OE equivalent to my original....  Hadn’t seen this prior....

 

https://www.moparmall.com/853765-VRR-4003A-VRD-4002A-VRD-4002B-Regulator-p/868-019.htm

[Plymouthy Adams]

IF your current regulator is similar style and wire arrangement...the few amps (2-4) that could be lost or gained should not make a great impact.  At that an amp or two could be ok..jump up a number of amps higher and you could run the risk of over heating and leading the armature.  That is why I was looking for the actual amp cutout point and could not locate the 4002 to compare....all the other models were a couple amps off from one to the other but the full swing could easily cause too much current drain from the earlier less rated generator.  

[thebeebe5]

14 minutes ago, Plymouthy Adams said:

IF your current regulator is similar style and wire arrangement...the few amps (2-4) that could be lost or gained should not make a great impact.  At that an amp or two could be ok..jump up a number of amps higher and you could run the risk of over heating and leading the armature.  That is why I was looking for the actual amp cutout point and could not locate the 4002 to compare....all the other models were a couple amps off from one to the other but the full swing could easily cause too much current drain from the earlier less rated generator.  

 

Looks like 25amps for the 4002

 

 

 

Burned a bit here.  I released the clip and filed the surfaces a bit.  Not sure how bad the internal damage might be....

 

 

 

 

Also, I know the gap is adjustable on the one point for type of driving.   Is it a smaller gap for lower amp charges or a larger gap?    Unfortunately my shop manual is at the shop, and, well....   my voltage regulator and I are at home.  

 

[thebeebe5]

ONE more question.  Is the regulator supposed to be isolated from ground??  I see my rubber grommets are deteriorating quite a bit.  Should be easily replaceable with a modern rubber replacement.  

 

Wonder if that’s the problem....  ?

 

 

[knuckleharley]

11 hours ago, thebeebe5 said:

Anyone know if a VRD-4002-A regulator can be replaced by a VRR-4003-A regulator?  I see listings online claiming the 4003 fits my '37 P4, but the 4002 is what's on it now.  I'm having an issue with intermittent regulating.  Needle goes to roughly 10 amps charge, then back to zero, and spends most of it's time on the zero...  ?

When I fired the car up after the year it took me to rebuild the engine it stuck on discharge and drained the battery without my being aware.  A light tap freed up whatever point was stuck inside, but now I'm not regularly regulating.... 

You can take one of the old emery board fingernail files and use it to clean the points in your regulator if they are sticking.

[Plymouthy Adams]

to prevent future sticking the contacts must be filed in correct direction as the contacts make a wiping effect on the points.

[thebeebe5]

4 minutes ago, Plymouthy Adams said:

to prevent future sticking the contacts must be filed in correct direction as the contacts make a wiping effect on the points.

 

Okay, good to know.   Seriously, thanks for all the help this morning.

Where can I find the proper direction to file?

[thebeebe5]

12 minutes ago, knuckleharley said:

You can take one of the old emery board fingernail files and use it to clean the points in your regulator if they are sticking.

 

I have a few points files around here....  Just need to know the proper direction now.  Don’t want more sticking.  

 

Oh!  And if the regulator needs to be isolated from the firewall with rubber grommets.   That would seem to make sense.....

Edited August 24, 2018 by thebeebe5

[Plymouthy Adams]

Motors manual shows this in general section for regulators.....should be front to rear across the plate of the electromagnet in direction

[thebeebe5]

Just now, Plymouthy Adams said:

Motors manual shows this in general section for regulators.....should be front to rear across the plate of the electromagnet in direction

 

 

I completely forgot about my Motors Manual....   I’ll look it up. 

[Merle Coggins]

2 hours ago, thebeebe5 said:

ONE more question.  Is the regulator supposed to be isolated from ground??  I see my rubber grommets are deteriorating quite a bit.  Should be easily replaceable with a modern rubber replacement.  

 

Wonder if that’s the problem....  ?

 

 

 

Yours is a bit different than what I have in my truck, but on mine the regulator is grounded to the body via the mounting bolts. It needs to be grounded somehow. If there isn't a separate ground wire it would need to ground via the mount bolts.

 

Also, in regards to filing the points, I found this in my truck's shop manual

 

[thebeebe5]

14 minutes ago, Merle Coggins said:

 

Yours is a bit different than what I have in my truck, but on mine the regulator is grounded to the body via the mounting bolts. It needs to be grounded somehow. If there isn't a separate ground wire it would need to ground via the mount bolts.

 

Also, in regards to filing the points, I found this in my truck's shop manual

 

 

 

Great info.  I’ll make sure the frame has a ground contact.  

 

 

Now...  where did I leave my carbon tet...?  

[DJ194950]

4 hours ago, thebeebe5 said:

 

 

Great info.  I’ll make sure the frame has a ground contact.  

 

 

Now...  where did I leave my carbon tet...?  

Check you antique fire extinguisher- they use it!!?

Also good for wasp nests!

 

DJ

[Plymouthy Adams]

in the absence of carbon tet.....I feel sure you can use a good grade acetone in the same manner.....just don't splash it anywhere you want the paint to stay....lol.....avoid mums nail polish remover....it will leave a film....high grade acetone for cleaning does not leave a film (unless it is super humid)...if cleaning a large surface start in the middle and work your way out to the edge in a circular motion to remove any all streaks....this is the cleaner used on glass optical lens halves before melting the adhesive rosin to glue them together...