Carb upgrade, fingers crossed

[NiftyFifty]

With headers last year, and always thinking I have the wrong size carb on my truck, I thought I would try an upgrade.

 

Got it mounted in the right position today, later in the week I’ll get it hooked up and try.  It’s a ford style 2100 carb same as an auto lite or basically a holly, so lots of options for jetting.  It was $88 brand new on eBay...I’ve spent and wasted money in a lot dumber spots.

[55 Fargo]

51 minutes ago, 4mula-dlx said:

With headers last year, and always thinking I have the wrong size carb on my truck, I thought I would try an upgrade.

 

Got it mounted in the right position today, later in the week I’ll get it hooked up and try.  It’s a ford style 2100 carb same as an auto lite or basically a holly, so lots of options for jetting.  It was $88 brand new on eBay...I’ve spent and wasted money in a lot dumber spots.

Hey that actually looks good on there. 

Okay so did you open up the hole on the manifold?

How does it run?

I m guessing no chance to road test yet.

Now with headers and a Holley 2bbl you expecting some more punch?

[NiftyFifty]

Nowhere near running yet, have to build a new throttle rod and work out the vacuum lines this week.

 

i didn’t open up the hole, the carb adapter matches the stock hole, so not much point expanding the manifold.  

[Jeff Balazs]

I'd be interested to hear how this works out. This is one area that a lot of progress has been made in since the old B & B's were made. Just not sure if the siamese ports and the original manifold will minimize the potential gains.

[NiftyFifty]

The carb adapter does "blend" the two into one, but somewhat my fear as well.  When I talked to Langdons about their conversion he had good things to say, but I wasn't willing to try this for $400 and fail...I'm in for under $200 and I can accept that if it fails. 

[55 Fargo]

The results should be evident immediately.

Now others who have used this 2bbl to 1bbl adapter and webber 32 36 carb say its a great improvement.

Have no idea what that entails.

Easier start ups, more power, and or better fuel economy?

Now the matter of the adapter plate bigger wider 2 bbl opening to smaller opening.

Bigger 2 bbl carb dumping fuel into a sorta funnel.

Will this result in lower induction capabilities?

Will this dump fuel resulting in cyls 3 and 4 being rich and the rest leaner?

Let us know your findings when you can.

Hope it works okay for you and offers more power too.

Edited March 6, 2018 by 55 Fargo Spitfire

[55 Fargo]

Okay check out a slant 6 2bbl intake its runner lengths and carb plenum.

Now of course it has 6 intake ports, superior right off the bat.

Its an OHV engine too.

Many on Slantsix.org report big improvements going from a 1 bbl to 2bbl intake and carb.  

Going to a 4 bbl even more power.

I have not seen a custom made 4 bbl intake for our flatheads. Im sure there are some but how well does it work compared to 2 or 3 carbs feeding the siamesed ports?

 

 

Edited April 25, 2018 by 55 Fargo Spitfire

[Sharps40]

Its basically like a weber 38/38.  Tune it like one for lean best idle... (link)....different than what you are used to with the old carters/stroms.  See link.

 

Leave the emulsion tubes and their jets alone.  you don't need to mess with them unless you always at 6000+ rpm on the drag strip.

 

Work hard to get idle and idle jetting right.  DO NOT OPEN THE LOWER THROTTLE PLATES TOO FAR.  your carb gets emulisified gas from the emulsion tubes through the external idle jets as such, the idle plates should never be opened more than about 1 turn of the screw from full closed..(i.e. proper setting for the lower butterflies is durn near completely almost slammed shut at idle - since it needs no air to idle, the air is in the gasoline already coming from emulsion tubes to the idle jets)  80% of your satisfaction will come from getting the idle and idle jetting right......

 

The older balls and stroms got raw gas from the idle port and need the air flow to run, hence their lower butterflys are a bit more open........

 

After which you can use an o2 sensor in the exhaust to mess with the main jets in the bowls from cruise to WOT.

 

Get the idle right.

 

Get the idle right.

 

That will get the off idle right.

 

Then work the main jets.

 

You should be able to tune this to run on a small 4 to a very large 6 if its a good carb......at $88 who knows.

 

before you start, check, check, check and recheck the linkage....nearly all failures are because the linkage is not positive and consistant from closed to fully open.

 

Finally, fuel pressure 3 to 4 psi.  No more.  May have to go electric since even a mechanical pump that runs at that pressure may be too uneven to properly feed the carb.  Fuel flow and pressure must be right and steady and most mechanical pumps are anything but steady.

 

Use a big fuel filter, between pump and carb, the glass and plastic ones are crap.  Many jets in these carbs and tight tolerances and the fuel must be clean.

 

The adapter will be fine.  Check everything for vacuum leaks......weber and weber style carbs run so well and are so adjustable that you can tune them to hide a pretty significant leak.

 

Get it right and with a good carb and a good engine making the right vacuum signal, it'll run like fuel injection.  Convert to 12v negative, add a 10SI or 12SI and an HEI Dizzy for instant start and total set it and forget it reliability.

 

setting up a weber     http://www.carburetion.com/Weber/adjust.htm

 

setting up a ford 2100  http://www.therangerstation.com/tech_library/pdf_documents/motorcraft_2150_carb.pdf

 

between the two, should get you running

Edited March 6, 2018 by Sharps40

[NiftyFifty]

I’m already 12volt with the Langdons electronic distributor, and running full dual exhaust and headers.  My buddy is a carburetor guru, about the only one left around here actually, so I’m pretty confident I can make this work.

 

I was hoping if I got this together I could sneak out for a drive, as it’s beem so nice here and little to no snow...until Sunday...now I’m in snow clearing mode with close to a foot in my yard, and basically pure ice underneath the snow from rain mix that hit before the snow. Maybe this coming Sunday I’ll get to the fire up point...don’t have much left to do now 

[Sharps40]

It'll likely run decent jetted as is.  Considering all the jets in these if you have a good vacuum signal you'll find them super tuneable and very responsive.  Mileage might not be as good as a 2 bbl progressive but in a weekend or two of jet/drive (especially with an O2 gauge monitoring for stoich at idle and about 12.5/1ish at WOT) you'll have it licked for reliable cruising for more miles than you can count.  That style carb with the ignition and steady power mods already performed will be a pleasant surprise.  Next you'll be wanting a 5 speed overdrive.

Edited March 7, 2018 by Sharps40

[NiftyFifty]

45 minutes ago, Sharps40 said:

It'll likely run decent jetted as is.  Considering all the jets in these if you have a good vacuum signal you'll find them super tuneable and very responsive.  Mileage might not be as good as a 2 bbl progressive but in a weekend or two of jet/drive (especially with an O2 gauge monitoring for stoich at idle and about 12.5/1ish at WOT) you'll have it licked for reliable cruising for more miles than you can count.  That style carb with the ignition and steady power mods already performed will be a pleasant surprise.  Next you'll be wanting a 5 speed overdrive.

 

 

Too late, already run a T5 and a 3:55 rear Cherokee diff.......don't come back with power steering...I have that already too! LOL

[Sharps40]

Well, at the rate you're going you'll have an overhead valve engine under those modern systems in no time flat!  Sounds like you are well on your way to making the car a reliable 21st Century classic.  Kudos for doing the right stuff for safety, pleasure and reliability! 

 

 

Edited March 7, 2018 by Sharps40

[55 Fargo]

On 3/6/2018 at 9:31 AM, Sharps40 said:

Its basically like a weber 38/38.  Tune it like one for lean best idle... (link)....different than what you are used to with the old carters/stroms.  See link.

 

Leave the emulsion tubes and their jets alone.  you don't need to mess with them unless you always at 6000+ rpm on the drag strip.

 

Work hard to get idle and idle jetting right.  DO NOT OPEN THE LOWER THROTTLE PLATES TOO FAR.  your carb gets emulisified gas from the emulsion tubes through the external idle jets as such, the idle plates should never be opened more than about 1 turn of the screw from full closed..(i.e. proper setting for the lower butterflies is durn near completely almost slammed shut at idle - since it needs no air to idle, the air is in the gasoline already coming from emulsion tubes to the idle jets)  80% of your satisfaction will come from getting the idle and idle jetting right......

 

The older balls and stroms got raw gas from the idle port and need the air flow to run, hence their lower butterflys are a bit more open........

 

After which you can use an o2 sensor in the exhaust to mess with the main jets in the bowls from cruise to WOT.

 

Get the idle right.

 

Get the idle right.

 

That will get the off idle right.

 

Then work the main jets.

 

You should be able to tune this to run on a small 4 to a very large 6 if its a good carb......at $88 who knows.

 

before you start, check, check, check and recheck the linkage....nearly all failures are because the linkage is not positive and consistant from closed to fully open.

 

Finally, fuel pressure 3 to 4 psi.  No more.  May have to go electric since even a mechanical pump that runs at that pressure may be too uneven to properly feed the carb.  Fuel flow and pressure must be right and steady and most mechanical pumps are anything but steady.

 

Use a big fuel filter, between pump and carb, the glass and plastic ones are crap.  Many jets in these carbs and tight tolerances and the fuel must be clean.

 

The adapter will be fine.  Check everything for vacuum leaks......weber and weber style carbs run so well and are so adjustable that you can tune them to hide a pretty significant leak.

 

Get it right and with a good carb and a good engine making the right vacuum signal, it'll run like fuel injection.  Convert to 12v negative, add a 10SI or 12SI and an HEI Dizzy for instant start and total set it and forget it reliability.

 

setting up a weber     http://www.carburetion.com/Weber/adjust.htm

 

setting up a ford 2100  http://www.therangerstation.com/tech_library/pdf_documents/motorcraft_2150_carb.pdf

 

between the two, should get you running

Very technical info.

One comment you make.

The adapter plate being fine.

Being the fact the intake carb base is tiny and the adapter is more or less funnel shaped feeding 3 siamesed intake runners.

How efficient will that be with what seems like a reduction to start with ?

Im hoping it works well for 4 mula, but have some reservations on the use of the adapter base. 

Can you give us some data on using a 2bbl carb adapter on these intakes with 1 2bbl carb please?

 

Edited April 25, 2018 by 55 Fargo Spitfire

[NiftyFifty]

My adapter being for a Ford carb looks like the one I’ve attached, it looks strange from the bottom side, but actually tapers quite nicely on the top/inside.

 

If a single can feed three, then a double should be able to feed it better as long as it isn’t restricted which it isn’t IMO with this plate

[Sharps40]

It'll be fine.  A two into one will likely not realize the full potential of the carb but adapters have been used successfully in the past.  Again, proper signal and if the $88 carb is a good one, its mostly a matter of basic adjustment and jetting.  Have at it, I think you'll find the fuel delivery crisp, responsive and reliable when completed.  Of note, if you find the main jets becoming uncovered during heavy acceleration or traveling up steep grades, consider reversing your carb 180 degrees and placing it bowl forward.  Good luck and let us know how it turns out. 

[NiftyFifty]

Well I got everything hooked up today and figured it was time for a test run....fired right up, sat on high idle perfectly, then after a few minutes I kicked it down and idles at about 7-800rpm.  When you stomp on it no real hesitation, revs right up.  I only wish I could actually take it for a drive, but I would say other then fine tuning once it hits the road, this seems like it’s going to work.

 

So $88 US for the Carb, about $50 for the adapter and a bit of time...I lost more then that at the hockey game last weekend.

[Sharps40]

Very cool!

 

[FlashBuddy]

Old Mopar and hockey. I love this forum.

[Plymouthy Adams]

I don't know...looks like that rear fender got hit with a hockey stick....I would not like that at all.....

[FlashBuddy]

LOL, caught my boys and their friends practicing slapshots in the garage!

[55 Fargo]

On 3/11/2018 at 3:29 PM, 4mula-dlx said:

Well I got everything hooked up today and figured it was time for a test run....fired right up, sat on high idle perfectly, then after a few minutes I kicked it down and idles at about 7-800rpm.  When you stomp on it no real hesitation, revs right up.  I only wish I could actually take it for a drive, but I would say other then fine tuning once it hits the road, this seems like it’s going to work.

 

So $88 US for the Carb, about $50 for the adapter and a bit of time...I lost more then that at the hockey game last weekend.

Whens the test drive?

Wondering how it will perform and if more power is noticed and at what ranges.

Gotta have some dry roads un your area?

 

[NiftyFifty]

Won’t be for quite awhile, I live on gravel that’s sheer ice right now.  I’m in no rush, won’t be much of a test in the ditch or wrapped around a pole. Lol

 

I’ll update when the weather is right

[55 Fargo]

22 minutes ago, 4mula-dlx said:

Won’t be for quite awhile, I live on gravel that’s sheer ice right now.  I’m in no rush, won’t be much of a test in the ditch or wrapped around a pole. Lol

 

I’ll update when the weather is right

Yes dont do that.

Lucky here gravel road and highway super dry..

[NiftyFifty]

Update:

 

Well had the truck out for its first real cruise yesterday and I'm very very happy with the way it performs!  Did it turn it into power like a small V8...no...but I can definitely tell things are a bit more responsive and I get up to speed a bit faster.  I still think my B and B was the wrong size for my truck, or at least that cid of engine..but this carb has fixed that all up.  Idles great, no hesitations, drop in 4th on the highway and it has good pick up to pass....all in all I'd say it was worth the relatively small investment and few changes to the truck.

 

As for the hockey portion of this thread...I know the Minnesota guys don't want to hear anything from us Manitobans for awhile LOL 

[55 Fargo]

Sorry Minnesota Wild fans just had to say dont mess with Winnipeg ...lol

 

 

 

Edited April 22, 2018 by 55 Fargo Spitfire