'50 Plymouth brakes adjust or upgrade?

[matt167]

Picking up my '50 Plymouth sometime next month. Trying to figure out everything I need to do to it to get it where I want it.. I have zero issues with 4 wheel drum brakes, and non self adjusters. BUT, I've never had a car with Lockheed brakes either. The PO told me they probably need a bit of adjustment although they stop straight and decent. I'm pretty positive he did not have a manual..

I took a gander at my '37-'53 Motors Manual and OMG, those front brakes and the adjustments are out there... How easy is it to get them in decent adjustment or, should I just put a Scarebird kit on it?

 

IF I put discs on the front will the factory Master cylinder be sufficient? I really don't want to go beyond stock, but I do want to stop

[laynrubber]

When kept in adjustment drum brakes do okay.  My thought is though why, when it isn't too much to upgrade to a disc front system. Not so much that your car is so bad it's that all the other cars on the road will have better braking capabilities, they might out brake you. 

 

[keithb7]

I’m about to tackle the Lockheed  full major and minor brake adjustment. All 4 corners. Without the special tool. I shall learn first hand how much of a struggle it will be. More to come. 

[matt167]

Will an original MC work with the discs?  My Motors manual shows 2 ways to do it, the one with the tool and another without it, although that process is like 5 steps more.. With the cost of brakes if anything is amiss it would pay to install the discs.

[Fastback50]

Hi Matt, I just did the front disc conversion on my '50 with the Scarebird kit.  I'm now getting the original rear in order and will then be putting in the residual valves for both front and rear.  I may also need a proportioning valve, we will see.   For the sake of future simplicity, I would say go for the conversion.  I'm using the original MC with mine and it works just fine.  The only thing I don'k like about it is that it's single reservoir so there's no backup if it fails.  Then again, people drove on those for decades without issue.  If I decide to go with a dual MC I will definitely take the time to add a booster.  Good luck

[Adam H P15 D30]

I used the Rusty Hope Kit, a search here will find all the information you need.  The kit works fantastic and the instructions were good.  The hardest part was tapping the spindles, but it wasn't that hard at all as they are pretty soft metal.  There was something I didn't like about the Scarebird kit that made me choose Rusty Hope but I can't remember what it was.  BTW, when I had an installation question, I emailed him and he responded within hours... top notch!

I am using my original M/C and it works good.  I removed the internal residual pressure valve and installed a 2lb front and 10lb rear residual pressure valves in line.  I'll bet the Scarebird kit would work the same if you go that route.  I have since purchased a dual M/C but it's not high on my list to install at this point because the Dodge stops so well as it is.

 

Adam

[Tom]

Hi...There are always 3 considerations with our old cars.Steer, stop, run. If we want to drive our cars, and l find most of the forum posts here are directed at drivers rather than other preferences, driving safely in today's traffic and speeds is probably going to dictate some departure from original equipment.

Having stated the obvious, allow me to share...l bought my 1940 D14 with all original drivetrain, steering and brakes.My plan, like yours, was to build a driver. My first move was to restore the brake system, on inspection there were no wheel cylinders on the rear, the worn out shoes were in a box in the trunk along with some of the hardware. The fronts were all there but were going to need complete restoration... While researching replacement parts l contacted Charlie at Rusty Hope and ended up purchasing his front disc brake kit...also, thanks to this forum, installed a ford ranger rear end which made the rear brake problem go away. The original master cylinder needed replaced so l

fabbed a bracket and used a dual chamber master. The cost of the conversion was fairly close to the cost of restoration.

The car stops perfectly with normal pedal pressure.

Yes l agree, four wheel drum brakes in good condition with the original master cylinder will stop the car just

fine. 

However, sacrificing some originality for the sake of safety seems like a good move to me..

 

[dpollo]

I have driven 50 Plymouths for over 50 years and only once had an issue with brake fade .  Since I liked to drive fast I solved that one by installing eleven inch brakes

from a Desoto on all 4 corners.  My present 50 and 51 have the original 10 x 2s and are doing just fine.  The 51 has over 50 000 miles since relining  and the linings are at about 50%.

Lots of highway miles but lots of mountains too.  I travelled the grades on the Highway  to the Sun  in Glacier Park.  No problems.

Some modern linings are too hard or do not have the same co efficient of friction as the original linings. I do not drive these cars like I might drive a sports car  and I see no reason to change

anything.  I am working on a 52 convertible now  and may use 11 by 2s on it. These can be found on early 50s Desotos and Chrysler Royals .  They were part of Plymouth's police and taxi packages too.  The reason I have not mentioned Dodge is the USA models had different drums and wheel offsets .  OK if you get the whole package.

[matt167]

I'll have to see how bad it is when I get it home. He told me all the brake parts are new, and they do work well enough for that to be believable. Said he got them from Napa for a cost around $500. If it's screwballed then the $500 that I'll have to spend to get it back in shape would be better spent on a disc kit. I'll just fight with the rears to get them adjusted if that is the case. I do know a guy that probably has the right tool if I need it. I really don't want to bother swapping in a different rear end and I actually have a couple Ranger/ Explorer rears that I could use.

[50 coupe]

Yup, I used an explorer disc brake rear end and used Scarebird disc conversion on front. Explorer disc/disc mc without booster. Works like a charm.

[Rosco]

For what it's worth, here's my two cents worth - I've been running original drum brakes on my '50 Deluxe since I bought the car four years ago with no problems.  I had all the wheel cylinders rebuilt, and replaced the linings on the rear brakes after we discovered that the old linings had separated from the brake shoes.  My mechanic then put everything back together, adjusted the brakes, checked the mc and all brake lines and the brakes have been fine ever since.  I do mostly city driving with some highway driving, (about 1000+ miles per year) and have never had an issue with the drum brakes.

[Dodgeb4ya]

The shoes should have been arc'ed to fit each turned drum ...

Then the four shoe anchor bolt arrows on the rear drums are set pointing to each other.

Then and on the front brake anchor bolts the arrows will point to each single wheel cylinder.....this only if all the shoes fit the curve of the drums exactly... no gaps at the ends of the linings!

Then do the simple upper 3/4" hex cam adjustments..  two on each wheel....with the .wrench pointing up and pull outward till drum is locked up... then back just enough till the drum is free.

I never do these brakes with out arcing the eight shoes to fit each drum. This makes sure the shoe lining contacts the drum 90-100% and creates a high firm pedal.

This way the anchor bolt adjustment in most cases can be eliminated.

[keithb7]

Great tips @Dodgeb4ya. Thank you. Very timely. I will be applying this technique.

[jgreg53]

Has any one installed he conversion kit from Kanter?

[jgreg53]

I'm looking at the scarebird system for the p15.  Is it my understanding that you need to buy the rotors and calipers separate?

[jgreg53]

also who has installed the scarebird setup and are you satisfied with it?