rubber sill plate removal

[Fastback50]

Hey all...so what's the trick on drilling these stainless steel screws out in the rubber door sills?  Mine has 8 on each one, and so far I've blown through two drill bits, one of which was cobalt.  I used a cooling agent since I didn't have true cutting fluid on hand....I seem to only get so far and then either it stops grabbing material or it snaps if I put too much pressure on it.  I'm using a slow speed as well.  What am I doing wrong or what would be the "Thor's Hammer" tool that will blast these out without breaking a sweat (short of oxy-acetylene lol).  

 

Normally I wouldn't even save these, but I see the repro's are NOT cheap 

[Don Coatney]

1 hour ago, Fastback50 said:

 What am I doing wrong or what would be the "Thor's Hammer" tool that will blast these out without breaking a sweat (short of oxy-acetylene lol). 

 

If these fasteners are indeed stainless steel an oxygen-acetylene torch will not work. A plasma torch is required.

[knuckleharley]

5 hours ago, Don Coatney said:

 

If these fasteners are indeed stainless steel an oxygen-acetylene torch will not work. A plasma torch is required.

Learn something new every day.

[Fastback50]

2 hours ago, knuckleharley said:

Learn something new every day.

Yes we do   My next attempt will be with some left hand drill bits....they aren’t cobalt but I’m skeptical anyway because I couldn’t get these screws to turn one bit even after multiple soaks in PB and cutting flathead grooves in the top of them.  I just really don’t want to destroy the old rubber.  

[casper50]

FB I know nothing about a 50 Plymouth but on my 47 Dodge door sills the metal plate on the back of the rubber has studs welded to the plate.  Mine aren't screws.  The studs just pry out of the rubber grommets.

[Dodgeb4ya]

Is the rubber sill mat supposed to be screwed down...? 

I thought they were held down by hidden metal pins that grabbed the rubber grommets in the rocker sills or later design 3/4"  rubber mount studs.

[rhelm1953]

I agree with Dodgeb4ya, my 50 Plymouth has the 3/4" rubber mount studs.  I don't think the stainless screws are factory.  This does not help Fastback50 with his question but if the screws are not factory then it is hard to say how they have been installed.  If they are threaded stainless and no antiseize was used during the installation then the threads have galled and the only choice is to drill them out.  I am surprised they are so hard to drill.

[Don Coatney]

Normally stainless steel threaded into stainless steel will gall. Stainless screwed into non stainless is much less likely to gall.

[Fastback50]

10 hours ago, casper50 said:

FB I know nothing about a 50 Plymouth but on my 47 Dodge door sills the metal plate on the back of the rubber has studs welded to the plate.  Mine aren't screws.  The studs just pry out of the rubber grommets.

The attached is what mine looks like.  Perhaps it's not stock after all?  If so I guess i can butcher them and then just break out the grinder with cutoff wheel.  Thanks for all the input guys.

[plymjim]

Those can't be stock, can they? If the heads are all in

as good shape as the one shown try using a hand

held impact driver on them. Good luck. 

[Dodgeb4ya]

Those screws are not stock... sorry to say

[Fastback50]

7 hours ago, Dodgeb4ya said:

Those screws are not stock... sorry to say

Thanks--I'm going to begin looking on here for photos of what the stock ones look like and in the meantime I don't need to worry about saving these.  Someone on here recently put some excellent looking diamond plate on his Chrysler sills....maybe I'll go that route     

[Dodgeb4ya]

I don't think I'd ruin them removing those sill mats. They are hard to find for 2 door cars.

Maybe using an awl in the vee of the screw head ....then with a hammer tapping the screw kinda sideways in all directions... that might loosen the screws enough to break the bond so you can get them out.

That way at least you can re-use them till another set is found.... That's how I can remove screws like that at times.

[Fastback50]

On February 23, 2018 at 10:21 AM, Dodgeb4ya said:

I don't think I'd ruin them removing those sill mats. They are hard to find for 2 door cars.

Maybe using an awl in the vee of the screw head ....then with a hammer tapping the screw kinda sideways in all directions... that might loosen the screws enough to break the bond so you can get them out.

That way at least you can re-use them till another set is found.... That's how I can remove screws like that at times.

Thanks Dodge, that's good advice, and I think I will try to save them.  I'm sure they aren't easy to find and these ones didn't look out of place to me until I found out otherwise.  

[neil and ethan]

did you try an impact driver,   worked on my door hinges,  

 and thanks Don for the info on the plasma cutter.  now that I own one it might be good to know

[The Oil Soup]

Grab your favorite hammer and this. 

[Vin's 49 Plymouth]

If you would like to drill any hard metal cobalt bits at slow rpm with some lube.

I teach my students this after drilling out screws when I was in the navy on P-3 Orions.

 

And studs are the original fasteners. Mine looked like they were on the titanic, they had fused together.

[Fastback50]

Thanks everyone--I'll have to get one of those impact drivers.  I'm not sure how much luck I would have had with it as the metals did seem fused together....I think the head would have sheared before the screw turned out, because I soaked them multiples times in PB and that did nothing.  I finally was able to get all of the head drilled off with "minimal" damage to the driver's side rubber sill.  The passenger will need to be done at some point, and in the meantime I'll be purchasing some actual cutting oil (I was just cooling the bit with alcohol) and a few new cobalt bits (some snapped anyway).  I found that the biggest challenge was to get the bit to bite deeper than the initial cutting depth of the tip....after that it sort of wants to spin freely in the crater it made and pressing down really hard doesn't seem to do much but create heat.  I'm now going to get the grinder out and cut the remainder of the screw even with the steel and hopefully punch the rest through the hole.  Pics to come.  

[BobT-47P15]

Those look like standard trim screws with a chrome collar -- but the metal they have been screwed into below may be extra tough for some

reason.  The original sill plates do have metal ball studs that go into a rubber grommet set into the body metal.  You can actually find new

grommets.  There is a fellow who makes a nice reproduction sill plate - not sure if it is a plastic or rubber material, but the design is right on

the original.  These mats do NOT come with studs....they are smooth on the bottom and have instructions for gluing them down.  Somewhere

 

A pic of my R sill plate ---no screws.

I have the maker's name and number.   

[knuckleharley]

5 hours ago, BobT-47P15 said:

Those look like standard trim screws with a chrome collar -- but the metal they have been screwed into below may be extra tough for some

reason.  The original sill plates do have metal ball studs that go into a rubber grommet set into the body metal.  You can actually find new

grommets.  There is a fellow who makes a nice reproduction sill plate - not sure if it is a plastic or rubber material, but the design is right on

the original.  These mats do NOT come with studs....they are smooth on the bottom and have instructions for gluing them down.  Somewhere

 

A pic of my R sill plate ---no screws.

I have the maker's name and number.   

Please either PM the info,or post it here on this thread.

 

Thanks!

[BobT-47P15]

The place I bought my new sill mats from is  Innovative Design Associates, Inc.    4515 Kirkcaldy Rd,

Bloomfield Hills, MI  48304      The man who designed and sells them is Diran Yazejian.  Phone is

(248) 646-0158              Cost per pair will probably be $250 to  $300  with some shipping.   (As my car is a

two door, I only needed the front set.....I think he also has some for the rear.)

 

If interested, I would 

call him.     The instruction sheet that comes with them explains a couple ways to attach them using either

contact cement or epoxy.    You have to leave the inner edge loose in order to slide your carpet or mat under

them.  

 

The originals have a metal backing piece to which the studs are attached.  To remove them, simply insert a

screwdriver or similar item under the plate and gently pry them upward.  The studs often are rusted and weak,

some perhaps broken off.  

 

I thought I saw an ad once for a new mat that has the metal back, etc, but don't recall any more about it.    

[casper50]

I got the mats for my 47 coupe with metal backing and 1 row of studs from Dennis Bickford 575-443-1132.  Not cheap but very good quality.  I think I paid $450 for the set.

 

https://opa.cig2.usa.canon.com/item/3kujgJxDr47sCNBM?isl__=1

 

https://opa.cig2.usa.canon.com/item/okvlYXVnUJEolgYR?isl__=1

[knuckleharley]

7 hours ago, BobT-47P15 said:

The place I bought my new sill mats from is  Innovative Design Associates, Inc.    4515 Kirkcaldy Rd,

Bloomfield Hills, MI  48304      The man who designed and sells them is Diran Yazejian.  Phone is

(248) 646-0158              Cost per pair will probably be $250 to  $300  with some shipping.   (As my car is a

two door, I only needed the front set.....I think he also has some for the rear.)

 

If interested, I would 

call him.     The instruction sheet that comes with them explains a couple ways to attach them using either

contact cement or epoxy.    You have to leave the inner edge loose in order to slide your carpet or mat under

them.  

 

The originals have a metal backing piece to which the studs are attached.  To remove them, simply insert a

screwdriver or similar item under the plate and gently pry them upward.  The studs often are rusted and weak,

some perhaps broken off.  

 

I thought I saw an ad once for a new mat that has the metal back, etc, but don't recall any more about it.    

Thanks,now have that saved in a text file in my 42 Dodge folder for future use.

[knuckleharley]

4 hours ago, casper50 said:

I got the mats for my 47 coupe with metal backing and 1 row of studs from Dennis Bickford 575-443-1132.  Not cheap but very good quality.  I think I paid $450 for the set.

 

https://opa.cig2.usa.canon.com/item/3kujgJxDr47sCNBM?isl__=1

 

https://opa.cig2.usa.canon.com/item/okvlYXVnUJEolgYR?isl__=1

Thanks to you,too! It's always better to have more than one source.

[BobT-47P15]

Here is a link to an article about Dennis Bickford and his manufacturing of repro mats.

 

 http://www.oldcarsweekly.com/restoration/restoration-tips/do-it-yourself-restoration-reproducing-parts