1947 New Yorker electrical

[Harvie]

Hello all,

 

Generator in my 1947 New Yorker can't keep up with the load when lights, radio and heater are on. Starter is turning slowly even when battery is fully charged. I believe that I have two matters to address:

1.Regarding generator- I would like to update to a positive ground one wire six volt alternator from Quality Power.

2.Regarding starter- since it seems like the starter is pulling too much power I need to get it overhauled - doesn't seem to be any MAX 4050's available now (if that is the right autolite starter for the straight eight).

 

I am going to attach photos of the regulator in my car. From what I have read on this site installing an alternator does not appear difficult and after disconnecting the "A" and "F" poles on the  regulator I should attach the alternator wire to the wire coming out of the regulator at the "B" pole. Diagrams made it look simple but when I looked under the hood the proximity of the relay and how its wiring may need to be modified with the new alternator has caused me to reappraise the "simplicity" of this job. Please take a look at the attached photos and diagrams - what will I need to do to the relay if I switch to an alternator?

 

Also, what is the small cylinder on top of the generator? It is not in any pictures that I could find in the shop or parts manuals.

 

Finally, any tips on a good place to send my starter to for a re-build?

 

Many thanks and happy New Year!

[Harvie]

Here is the generator

[Harvie]

Here is the diagram

[Plymouthy Adams]

the round thing is the radio suppression filter...the starter, suspected by you to be sluggish and pulling too many amps....have you verified it the starter if pulling too many by means of testing with amp meter and or possible testing your battery for the ability to hold a100% charge.  As for the generator, they do not put out the current at idle for the accessories you mentioned, but, does it output enough at higher RPM to overcome this?  You are on the right track with your thinking, you need however to verify with proper tests so not to waste any money.   

[Tom Skinner]

Harvie,

The small cylinder is a Condenser. It is there to subdue Radio Static noise. It is not needed.

I will stand aside to others for your other electrical questions, as I am not qualified to comment.

I am electrically chalenged.

Tom

[Dodgeb4ya]

Four of my 1946-50 Chrysler straight eight cars keep up (charging) just fine above idle. You should not need a alternator.

You must have the proper gauge wiring, wiring connected correctly, a good operating factory  Autolite regulator matched  for the model and amp rating of generator.

The battery cables must be BIG and THICK (00) 2/0 or even (000) 3/0

The positive ground cable connects to the generator stud at the GEN mounting bracket. Ground connection is critical at the starter to bell housing too!

make sure the cables are good before having the starter rebuilt.

These 1941-48 starters are $$$$$ and hard to find.

 

Make sure you have at least a group 2 battery or larger... I use group 4... 975 CCA rated 6 volt batteries as the modern group 2's don't last (2 years) and are weak for the eight cylinder cars.

I modify the battery trays slightly.

 

That's a radio noise suppression condenser on the generator...factory installed.

[Jerry Roberts]

Start with the  basics if you haven't already . Make sure that all of your battery terminals and cable ends are clean , bright , and tight . 

[DonaldSmith]

For wiring an alternator:

 

Harvie, in your photo, the front post of the generator seems to be the "F" post.  See if it is so marked.  Otherwise verify that its diameter is smaller than that of the other post.  This wire goes to the "F" post of the regulator and is to be abandoned.   (My wiring diagram shows the posts opposite.) 

 

The rear post seems to be the "A" post, the larger post.   One wire goes to the starter solenoid , to ground the solenoid when the engine is not moving.  Remove this wire and ground it. (You will now have to be careful not to push the starter button when the engine is running.)  The other wire goes to the "A" post of the regulator.  Connect this wire to the single post of the alternator.

 

At the regulator, remove the wires from the "A" post and "B" post, and  connect the two wires together, to complete the circuit to the ignition switch.  Now the regulator and "F" 'wire are pure decoration. 

[knuckleharley]

Chances are your starter is turning slowly because it is a 6 volt starter being energized by a 6 volt battery. Compared to your newer cars that are 12,it would have sounded slow the same day the car was driven off the dealers lot. Find someone in Winnipeg that has a 6 volt car or truck and listen to how fast his starter turns over and you will see what I mean.

 

As for the generator output,listen to what people have already told you. IF you have someone that knows what they are doing and that understands the system requirements test it and tell you it's not putting out enough amps,you can adjust it to put out more.

 

The first thing you need to do is go to ebay,Amazon,or a used book web site and buy a copy of the Motors Auto Repair Manual that covers 1947. Open it to the section on charging systems and read that thoroughly and take a good look at the photos. It will tell and show you anything and everything you ever need to know about checking,adjusting,repairing/rebuilding,and replacing a generator and/or a voltage regulator. It will even tell you what tools you need and how to use them.

 

While you are spending money on manuals,which is the smartest money you will EVER spend,buy a reprint of the 1947 owners manual,parts manual,and the factory service manual. There is nothing that can go wrong with your car that one or more of these books can't tell you how to fix,including telling  you the parts numbers and the tools you will need.

[Harvie]

Thank you all for the excellent advice. I am going to test the starter and the generator with a meter, upgrade to a group 4 battery with new cables (battery that came with the car only has 625 CCA), and get the Motors Auto Repair Manual and owners manual (I already have the shop Manual and parts manual).

 

I shall post results here.

 

Best regards

[Harvie]

New Battery and cables helped and should sustain me over the next driving season -if winter ever ends up here.

Starter is drawing too much juice though and will have to be replaced /rebuilt at some point. Looks like replacement is out of the question as none are available. Will have to identify a good source for rebuild in due course. Any thoughts on the best place to use?

[knuckleharley]

1 hour ago, Harvie said:

New Battery and cables helped and should sustain me over the next driving season -if winter ever ends up here.

Starter is drawing too much juice though and will have to be replaced /rebuilt at some point. Looks like replacement is out of the question as none are available. Will have to identify a good source for rebuild in due course. Any thoughts on the best place to use?

Best thing to do is do a web or yellow page search for auto electrical repair shops in your area,and then call each to get an estimate for a 100 percent rebuilt. Chances are all it will need is cleaning and new brushes and bushings,but it's better to know what the upper limit is going to be before you drop it off.

 

NOT going to be cheap,though. The last one I had rebuilt a couple of years ago needed a new armature because a previous owner had taken the one  in it to a wire wheel to clean it up,and polished all the shellac/whatever off,causing it to short out. Cost me right at $100 by the time the dust settled,and that was with me taking it off,delivering it,picking it up,and putting it back on.

 

The good news is once it is fixed,it's pretty much fixed forever from your POV. Even if you drove it daily it would take years for it to need brushes and bushings again.

Edited February 6, 2018 by knuckleharley

[Harvie]

Thanks again Knuckleharley I really appreciate your advice. By the way, I did buy the Motors Manual for 1948 and it is excellent but way over my head in terms of "how to". The reprint of the shop manual that I got fills in some of the blanks but I am still looking for an Owners' Manual for a 1947 New Yorker if anyone knows where I can acquire one.

 

Thanks

[knuckleharley]

1 hour ago, Harvie said:

Thanks again Knuckleharley I really appreciate your advice. By the way, I did buy the Motors Manual for 1948 and it is excellent but way over my head in terms of "how to".

 

Thanks

Did you go to the general repair section,or stick with the section specifically for your car? The general repair section is where they explain how things work and how and why to do repairs.

 

For example,look up "starters" and not "1947 Chryslers,and then looking for the "starter removal and replacement" section. The vehicle specific sections don't get into the "whys" and "hows" so much.

[BobT-47P15]

As to a repair shop for the generator.........are there any old car clubs in your area......do you know any of their

members, or if you don't......i would suggest attending a show or cruise in and visit with some of the guys 

showing their cars about such a place.      Just my thoughts.