Pertronix 6v super confusion

[CowboyConnor]

Help! Trying to finish up my pertronix ignition system on my 1950 Plymouth that's 6v. How do I integrate the 2 pertronix wires with the factory harness wires to the coil?

[Plymouthy Adams]

can you post the direction that came with the unit you bought for folks to look over first .......

[CowboyConnor]

Here are the instructions.

[DonaldSmith]

The Pertronix wiring is way different than that of a points-type distributor, so clear your mind.  

 

With the points-type ignition, the hot wire from the ignition goes to the (-) post of the coil.  (Positive ground:)  The wire from the (+) post goes to the distributor, where the points interrupt the current to ground.  

 

With the Pertronix unit, the ignitor in the distributor interrupts the hot current to the (-) post of the coil;  The (+) post is wired directly to ground.  

 

The ignitor goes in the distributor, so two wires go into the distributor instead of one.   The black wire comes from the ignition, and the grey wire goes to the (-) post of the coil.

 

I'll scare up some photos.   

Edited July 11, 2016 by DonaldSmith

[DonaldSmith]

Here's a photo of the ignitor on the breaker plate.  

 

(I ground back the eccentric screw to get the ignitor to sit on the little posts;  maybe I should have ground back the edge of the ignitor.)  

 

Both wires of the ignitor have to pass out of the distributor body, so I cut out the rubber grommet to accommodate the two wires. 

 

 

(The "grey" wire is the one with the grey stripes.)

Edited July 11, 2016 by DonaldSmith

[CowboyConnor]

What do I do with the red wire on the factory harness? Thanks!

[Jeff Balazs]

The wire from your ignition switch goes to one lead off the ignitor. The other lead off the ignitor goes to the negative side of the coil. Then the only other thing you need is a short lead from the positive side of the coil to ground.

Hope this helps, Jeff

[Tom Skinner]

Question?

Will this set up work with a Fluid Drive Tansmission? Will the Tranny Selenoid still "interupt" the Tranny to upshift, or downshift?

Tom

[Plymouthy Adams]

Pertronix website I believe addressed the fluid drive concerns on a thread posted here long ago.  I would highly suggest you eliminate confusion and possible misquote by anyone and go straight to Pertronix with this question on application.  I feel if you ask them up front they can supply you with all your needs by part number, shcematic and answer all your questions about compatibility.

[Tom Skinner]

Well that was a big help. Not a simple yes or no? I guess I'm not supposed to ask questions when it comes to plymouthy adams.

I believe from memory, there was a mention of a resistor being needed to accommodate the Fluid drive, but I thought I would ask.

So plymouthy, how about letting others answer if you don't know or ain't willing to share information with others. I'll bet I'm not the only one wondering about this.

[DonaldSmith]

I just tried to edit a most eloquent explanation of the  situation, but it got deleted.  I explained this Pertronix adaptation in a previous thread, but here is a short form, for the M-5 semi-automatic:

 

Delete wire from (+) post of coil to PRI terminal of Transmission Relay.

Add wire from (-) post of coil, through a 7 watt resistor, to PRI terminal.

 

It works.   

 

Yes, contact Pertronix, and see past threads, for further technical information. 

[Tom Skinner]

Thank you Donald Smith, that was what I thought, and wanted to share with others.

[Plymouthy Adams]

hey I just figured you could save yourself a head ache calling them direct and getting the straight skinny...but its your baby..use the search or wait till someone else posts....I could take the time from working on my stuff to do all your research but I thought a mention to the fact it has been discussed here would send a proactive man to seek and learn...

 

as for the reply above, you were still advised to call them..

Edited July 12, 2016 by Plymouthy Adams

[Jeff Balazs]

Now I am sort of confused. I have a fluid drive truck with a Pertronix trigger installed. There are no wires associated with the fluid drive. There might be on a Truck-O-Matic equipped truck but that is a semi automatic transmission and is not referred to or badged as a fluid drive. Were the cars with semi automatic transmissions just called fluid drives? This seems like a misnomer.   Surely they had some other name when equipped with a semi automatic transmission......

 

Jeff

[DonaldSmith]

Short answer:  "Fluid Drive" means a fluid coupling between the engine and the clutch.  Add to that a 3-speed transmission; good enough for some Dodges.  Add a four-speed semi-automatic, and call it "Gyromatic" for Dodge, "Tip-Toe Shift" for DeSoto, and I forget what for Chrysler.

 

The 3-speed needs no extra wiring.  The semi-automatic needs two wires to the carburetor, one to a dashpot to keep the engine from dying when the pedal is let up, and one to kick down the trans when the pedal is floored. 

[Jeff Balazs]

That is kind of what I thought. So are those cars badged as Fluid Drives.......or Gyromatics etc? Would be helpful to know.

 

Jeff

[DonaldSmith]

As far as I know, the DeSotos and Chryslers had the semi-automatic.  There were some commercial DeSotos with stick shifts, maybe New York Taxis.

I think Dodge offered the standard three speed, the 3-speed with fluid coupling, and later also the semi-automatic.  The Dodge people can set us straight on this.

 

So, "Fluid Drive" in red on the bumper, or in chrome on the side of the car, won't tell the whole story.  I don't know if there was additional badging anywhere for the semi-automatics.

 

If the carb has the wires, it's a semi-automatic.  If "First" is missing from the shift pattern, it's semi-automatic.  If it upshifts about 20 mph when you let up on the gas, and downshifts when you floor it, it's the semi-automatic. 

[Jeff Balazs]

Interesting.

On the trucks that are equipped with Fluid Drive this was clearly badged. Could be a 3 speed column shift or a 4 speed floor shift like mine. The trucks that had a semi automatic were all badged as Truck-O-Matics so there should never be any confusion. This is a good thing......as they are very different beasts.

 

Jeff

[Tom Skinner]

The two range 1-2 and 3-4 Hydraulic Transmission or m6 with Fluid Coupler is most of the Chrashler 1946-1949 situations.

[dpollo]

I think PA has your best interest in mind since a misconnection might ruin a rather expensive electronic unit.  

 

Another solution would be to use the grounding circuit from the Fluid Drive to open a relay which will temporarily

interrupt the ignition. The resistor's place in the Fluid Drive circuit is explained in the shop manual. Memory is vague at this point

but its purpose was not as straightforward as the usual ballast resistor.  

 

The ignition interrupter circuit must do two things.  Dump the fluid pressure in the trans and very briefly interrupt the ignition by grounding out the distributor points  so torque is broken and the gears can change position. As soon as the trans shifts, ignition is restored.  

[Tom Skinner]

I am still all original 6 Volt, Points, Condenser, Cap, and Rotor. I have contemplated changing over but haven't taken the leap.

I made a T.D.C. Gauge also so finding Static Timing after a Points Change is a piece of cake.

I wonder if the Pertronix is as good as everyone claims - that is to say (not having to tweak the Points and Timing) every so often

to achieve maximum performance from our old sixes. My TDC Gauge. It goes in at No. 6 Cylinder.

Edited July 15, 2016 by Tom Skinner

[Jeff Balazs]

Tom;

I sure like mine. I am still on 6 volts as well and it give me quick starts cold or warm.

There are lots and lots of opinions and arguments on using points vs this set up. To me switching over to this made sense because there is nothing to wear or get dirty and act up. I put this in a couple of years ago and I drive this truck daily. It hasn't needed any attention so far.

 

Jeff

[Rubbercooke]

Tom, I did the same kit on my 49 a few weeks ago and lost my tranny shift. I can't remember what was wrong but use the schematic for the tranny and you will figure it out. If I remember I had to remove the extra wires that went to the tranny and one was power that needed turned on with the key and not routed through the electronic points. I also did away with the kill switch wire from the tranny.

Sorry so late but just ran across this.

Good luck!

[DonaldSmith]

Does your transmission have wiring?  (Must be semi-automatic or overdrive.)

 

Per my previous posts about the Pertronix with a semi-automatic or overdrive, especially post #11, a resistor and wire are added to to the transmission wiring.

 

This info was not in the installation instructions.  I called Pertronix about wiring their ignitor for the Tip-Toe semi-automatic, and they gave me the specs and possible source for the appropriate resistor and told me where to wire it in.

 

(Edited spelling of "they";  but you knew what I meant.)     

Edited August 7, 2016 by DonaldSmith

[James_Douglas]

Be advised there are TWO DIFFERNET wiring systems on the MOPAR Semi-Automatics.  The 1946 to mid-1949 use a relay with the interrupter switch, governor, and the like.  While the true 1949 and later use a circuit breaker and a big carbon resistor.  Make sure, which it why calling the manufacturer would be in order, that their unit works with both of these electrical systems.  If they do not understand the difference, then I would ship it back and stick with points.

 

I am somewhat biased as I have run points in the big Desoto for the last 14 years all over San Francisco and Northern California and have never been stuck due to points or anything else for that matter.  Shure, I have had issues where it ran like crap, but I got home and then just fixed it.  If you take the time, like 6 to 9 months, and get a capacitor value that matches you ignition system the points last several years without replacement.

 

James.