CSARebel Posted July 10, 2016 Report Share Posted July 10, 2016 I have another 230 Flathead 6, wanting to save it, Is there a way to free up the parts without damaging them. The motor is frozen, been soaking the heads with Marvel oil and alittle motor oil, hoping to free up the rust around the rings. Then noticed the oil coming threw the exhaust manifold , does this mean that a valve is open (exhaust/intake )? Next step will be too tear engine apart, but again need to see if it is worth rebuilding if I can't get the crank shaft to turn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casper50 Posted July 10, 2016 Report Share Posted July 10, 2016 some of the valves will always be open. How long have you been soaking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knuckleharley Posted July 10, 2016 Report Share Posted July 10, 2016 If worse comes to worse you can always strip it down to the block assembly,and then after pulling the crank use a block of hard wood and a BFH to knock the pistons loose. I haven't found anything that works better on the corrosion created by aluminum and steel than carb cleaner. You might want to pour carb cleaner into each cylinder and letting it sit until it drains away and then pouring Marvel Mystery oil in each cylinder and letting it sit until it starts to drain away before applying the BFH. Less danger of scoring a cylinder wall from a broken ring. I usually unstick them while they are still together by closing all the valves,filling one cylinder at a time with carb cleaner,and then pressurizing that cylinder with about 150 psi or so of air pressure. You know when it has all worked it's magic when you hear the air making "glub,glub,glub" noises as the air reaches the oil in the base pan. I then fill that cylinder with ATF/MMO/WD-40/whatever thin lube I have handy,and put air pressure behind that to force the lube into the rings. Once the oil is blown past the rings,I move on to the next cylinder and repeat. Maybe I am lucky,but I haven't seen one yet that wouldn't break free by bumping the starter with the plugs out after this treatment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_shel_ny Posted July 10, 2016 Report Share Posted July 10, 2016 (edited) I have another 230 Flathead 6, wanting to save it, Is there a way to free up the parts without damaging them. The motor is frozen, been soaking the heads with Marvel oil and alittle motor oil, hoping to free up the rust around the rings. Then noticed the oil coming threw the exhaust manifold , does this mean that a valve is open (exhaust/intake )? Next step will be too tear engine apart, but again need to see if it is worth rebuilding if I can't get the crank shaft to turn. Be sure to tilt the engine to one side so that your MMO gets to the piston. As the valves are right under the spark plug hole tilting will result in less leaking out of a cylinder that has an open/partially open valve. Edited July 10, 2016 by shel_ny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coatney Posted July 10, 2016 Report Share Posted July 10, 2016 I usually unstick them while they are still together by closing all the valves, Sounds good but how do you close all the valves? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSARebel Posted July 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2016 some of the valves will always be open. How long have you been soaking? the engine has been soaking for a week now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSARebel Posted July 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2016 Be sure to tilt the engine to one side so that your MMO gets to the piston. As the valves are right under the spark plug hole tilting will result in less leaking out of a cylinder that has an open/partially open valve. yeah, this is what is going on now, 3 cylinders hold fluid, other 3 oil/marvel runs out threw exhaust manifold onto ground, I will have to pull engine from the Car and take the next step, I tried to turn the crank with a large monkey wrench and it wouldn't move at all. should I pull the head off and get the oil directly into the pistons and valves. sense it is pouring out threw exhaust manifold, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casper50 Posted July 10, 2016 Report Share Posted July 10, 2016 I pulled the head off of mine. Made thing so much easier. I only had to soak 3 days. You do know that the sparkplug holes are over the valves not the pistons right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knuckleharley Posted July 10, 2016 Report Share Posted July 10, 2016 Sounds good but how do you close all the valves? With OHV engines,it's easy. Just remove the rocker arms and pushrods. With flatheads it's a little more complicated. You have to remove the lifters,and may have to remove the head. I haven't tried to pressurize a flathead yet. So far they have all broken free and turned with the starter and the plugs out after soaking a little while with carb cleaner, I do have a stuck flat 6 Ford engine that is a spare for my 51 Ford that I need to unstick and lube before I pull it from the parts car and store it inside,though. I have been waiting for less heat and humidity to get started on it,but will report on progress and problems once I do it if there is any interest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James_Douglas Posted July 10, 2016 Report Share Posted July 10, 2016 Years ago I know a guy that had a stuck engine. He got a 50 gal drum. He paid, a couple of cases of beer, to the guys at a local oil change place. He left the drum with the engine in the drum in the corner of the shop for a month. The shop guys poured the old oil into the drum until the engine was covered. About a month later they, using the drum drain plug, they drained the oil into their "normal" waste oil tank. He then took the drum and engine home. He pulled it out and put a BF 3/4 inch breaker bar on the crank and got it to turn over. James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coatney Posted July 10, 2016 Report Share Posted July 10, 2016 I know it is easy on OHV engines but we are talking a Flathead here. To remove the lifters on a Flathead engine you must first remove the camshaft. To remove the camshaft you must first remove the valves and timing chain. To remove the valves you must first remove the head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knuckleharley Posted July 10, 2016 Report Share Posted July 10, 2016 I know it is easy on OHV engines but we are talking a Flathead here. To remove the lifters on a Flathead engine you must first remove the camshaft. To remove the camshaft you must first remove the valves and timing chain. To remove the valves you must first remove the head. Ok,so what you are saying is it is possible to pressurize cylinders in flatheads. It's just more work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coatney Posted July 10, 2016 Report Share Posted July 10, 2016 In order to pressurize the combustion chambers in a flathead you must remove the camshaft, remove and replace the valves and head. And it is very possible that one or more of the valves is stuck and will be very difficult to remove. I suggest the head be pulled first off and then soak the pistons. In my Desoto engine the pistons were locked so tight in the cylinders the only way to remove them was to beat them until they broke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSARebel Posted July 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2016 I pulled the head off of mine. Made thing so much easier. I only had to soak 3 days. You do know that the sparkplug holes are over the valves not the pistons right? Yeah, I just pulled the head off and yes there was Rust, Dirt, sludge, and 3 Exhaust valves open, so right now the whole thing is soaking in Oil& Marvel Oil treatment. I tried to turn it but no use, Oh well I guess I will pull the engine and rebuild it. At least the oil pan was full of oil when I got the engine, but I guess sitting for a long time and age has taken a toll on the engine, But I am up for the challenge to bring the old D24 engine alive again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpollo Posted July 10, 2016 Report Share Posted July 10, 2016 Another trick is to fill the water jackets with very hot water and keep it hot . This will expand the bores a little, perhaps enough to break it loose. I would be reluctant to run an engine that has been stuck since any corrosion on the piston skirts will result in a lot of damage when it warms up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knuckleharley Posted July 10, 2016 Report Share Posted July 10, 2016 (edited) Another trick is to fill the water jackets with very hot water and keep it hot . This will expand the bores a little, perhaps enough to break it loose. I would be reluctant to run an engine that has been stuck since any corrosion on the piston skirts will result in a lot of damage when it warms up I have unstuck and ran a lot of engines with no trouble at all. Any minor corrosion on the rings or the bore will disappear out the exhaust ports the first time it fires. Not much you can do about pits but live with them. BTW,once I free one up I spin it with the starter with the plugs out and something like WD-40 in the cylinders for lube until it builds up oil pressure a couple of times before I put the plugs back in it and start it. I also change the oil and filter before starting it. That's a good tip on the water,though. I had never even thought of that. Edited July 10, 2016 by knuckleharley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyHarold Posted July 10, 2016 Report Share Posted July 10, 2016 RE: Hot water in block I once had the brainstorm of draining the block, pulling the thermostat, then installing an in-line block water heater to heat the coolant. Never tried it, but suspect it would work. One thing I did try once was to buy cheap immersion heaters (for coffee or tea) and drop one into each oil-filled cylinder (wouldn't work for two pistons at TDC). Didn't work out too well...nearly caused a fire when the Marvel Mystery Oil heated up. Another thing I've noticed is that if the engine stopped with any pistons at TDC or BDC before it seized there is no upward or downward force exerted on them by the breaker bar you're using to turn the crankshaft. The vertical force component is lost due to the connecting rod pivoting on the wrist pin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knuckleharley Posted July 10, 2016 Report Share Posted July 10, 2016 Another thing I've noticed is that if the engine stopped with any pistons at TDC or BDC before it seized there is no upward or downward force exerted on them by the breaker bar you're using to turn the crankshaft. The vertical force component is lost due to the connecting rod pivoting on the wrist pin. About all you can do with them short of pulling the crank is to beat on them using a hard wood block near piston size using a BGH after applying as much carb cleaner as you can to that cylinder. If the piston is all the way up to the very top,you will have to rotate the engine 180 degrees and pour it in at the bottom and just let it sit until it starts leaking past the rings. Then turn it right side up and start tapping away at the piston top with the wood block and the hammer. All it takes is for a tiny opening to develop,and after that you got it. If the engine has been open to rainwater and sitting for a long time,the only way I know of to get the pistons out is to bust them up with a chisel or something similar. If you are lucky you can hone the cylinders enough to make them usable and not have to rebore or sleeve them. I have even used .020 over rings in a standard bore block by filing down the end gaps. Not something you might want to do in a high compression,high winding race engine,but plenty safe for these low-revving flaheads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgeb4ya Posted July 10, 2016 Report Share Posted July 10, 2016 Once you get it freed up better take the time to pull it all apart and check it all out. I have seen and experienced unstuck engines that ran fine afterwards but smoked because of stuck rings in the ring lands. If you don't care and want to take a chance go for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSARebel Posted July 11, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2016 I have the time and no rush, I am soaking each cylinder with Oil and already cleaned up the Head, Light rust and carbon buildup but nothing bad no pitting. I have cleaned all of the bolt holes and water inlets of any rust or buildup from years of running and sitting sense 1967. The head looks great for it's age the cylinder walls look good from what I can see, except for light rust/carbon buildup. Yes, I agree the iron oil rings and pistons need to be free the I need to take off the valve cover and soak it as well, I am taking my time and will make photo's of how the rebuild goes and what I find along the way. Anybody know of any business who has the rebuild kits for a Dodge D24 flathead 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coatney Posted July 11, 2016 Report Share Posted July 11, 2016 I had Mikes Speed Shop in Murfreesboro do all the machine work on my engine and I let them buy the bearings so I know they are sized correctly. https://www.mechanicadvisor.com/tn/murfreesboro/mikes-speed-shop 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSARebel Posted July 13, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2016 Today, I had some luck I got the Intake & Exhaust valves free from Rust, Now I am re-soaking the Pistons using 3 in One Oil, I have been using a Rubber Hammer and a and tapping the top of block and side walls to get the oil down past the iron rings inside. Here is a photo of the block with the head taken off, notice the exhaust valves open, when I poured oil into head it came out threw valves Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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