Different truck bell housings

[timkingsbury]

Howdy Folks -

 

I know there are several different truck bell housings and I know this is not the definitive list.     

 

A link I can put up on the forum, here is one from Vintage Power Wagon with the early 40s and up powerwagons

 

 

http://www.vintagepowerwagons.com/featured-parts.html

 

 

He lists 4 different bell housings

 

http://www.vintagepowerwagons.com/pdf/parts/02clutch.pdf

 

 

Vehicle Type: A Part #CC592386

Vehicle Type: B,C,(D up to early 1956) Part #CC921197

Vehicle Type: D-late (1956 & up with NP420 Synchro Trans only.) Part #CC1786131

 Vehicle Type: E,F Part #CC1269428

 

 

I also know there were different bell housing configuration in pickups, with some having car transmissions,

and then truck transmissions. The a833 isn't going to be an alternative for the  4wd's with transfer cases.

I am just putting them up as an illustration of the various bell housings.

 

 

There are also  heavier truck bellhousings, with trucks with 5 speeds and 5 speed with overdrives.  Again

not likely an application for a modern a833 4 speed with overdrive. 

 

 

What I am up to is trying to put together adapter plates for the various bell housings so that people

can bolt up the A833 over drive 4 speeds. While I am pretty sure I have a truck with every combination ever made their in trucks.   Ideally I would like not to have take out bell housings to measure everything up.

 

So  my question is, .....  any chance there is another truck nut like yours truly that might have  the various bell housings out of trucks, and that might be able to help with my pursuit to make patterns ?

 

I am thinking of 2 wd pickups with 3 speeds or 4 speeds in them.  I would say 1 tons and below, but I realize

I have a "pickup" that is a 2 ton configured truck with a 10 foot box from the factory with a 265 ci motor in it and

it was definitely a candidate for an A833.  In fact it has one in it. I just don't want to have to pull the tranny to look

at that adapter plate that was done about 25 years ago.

 

Tim Kingsbury

fargopickupking@yahoo.com

Edited December 14, 2015 by timkingsbury

[Merle Coggins]

I believe I still have a bell housing from a B-3-C that had a syncro 4 speed. I just have to remember where I stashed it during my moving process.

 

Merle

[Jeff Balazs]

And I believe the Fluid Drive trucks take at least one different bellhousing too. Not sure when they dropped this option but it tends to complicate things.

 

Jeff

[timkingsbury]

And I believe the Fluid Drive trucks take at least one different bellhousing too. Not sure when they dropped this option but it tends to complicate things.

 

Jeff

They do have a different bell housing but from what I can see in my Dodge/Fargo engineering manual the tranny looks the same in terms of

bolt pattern. It definitely has a longer shaft.

 

Here are the trannys..  Obviously the 5 speeds isn't anything we would be looking to do adapter plates for.

 

I have the part numbers for all of the bell housings for all the 2wd but not even pictures of them. Lol.. well actually not from

the tranny side,

[Jeff Balazs]

I can't imagine any of the heavy truck owners wanting to do this swap. Might just be me but I don't know what they would have to gain?

 

Jeff

[Merle Coggins]

Yes, the FD bell housing is deeper, and the trans input shaft is longer, but otherwise the bolt patterns are the same (as far as I can tell)

 

I did see that standard clutch 4 speed bell housing in my garage tonight, so it's available for measurements if needed.

 

I also dug through some pictures and found these;

 

The trans side of my FD 4 speed bell housing in my truck

 

And here's a few of the standard clutch 4 speed that's on my garage floor at the moment

 

I'll work on more accurate measurements if you let me know exactly what you need. These pics were taken a while ago.

 

Merle

Edited December 15, 2015 by Merle Coggins

[John-T-53]

The only difference between a standard 4-speed and a 3-speed bell housing are the holes.

 

So, that's two castings for the light duty trucks, at least: standard bellhousing and the FD. I'm unsure if the FD housing would work with a late model transmission due to the length. The input shaft options would have to be studied for your retrofit tranny.

 

Merle, how much longer is the FD? I see your spare is drilled for both the 3 and 4 speed.

 

Tim, how does the shift linkage work on the 833? Have any pics?

Also, what does the bolt pattern of this tranny look like? Maybe the holes would all fall within the "meat" of the standard bell housing so you could just drill it out?

Edited December 15, 2015 by John-T-53

[Merle Coggins]

John, I wouldn't be able to measure my FD bell housing until Friday as I'm not near my truck, so I can't confirm the depth difference. But I can tell you it's probably at least 6-8" longer.

I did some digging through some pictures to find a good pic of the FD housing and didn't have one. But I did find this one that shows the relationship between the pedal shaft, where a normal bell housing clutch shaft would be, and the FD clutch shaft.

[55 Fargo]

Here are a couple of pics, of  A833 transmissions and there shifters, as you can se there not toploaders...

[Don Coatney]

Of interest I have of yet not talked to anyone who has actually done this swap and can post results. I would be interested in knowing how the swap went and the driving results?

[timkingsbury]

Yes, the FD bell housing is deeper, and the trans input shaft is longer, but otherwise the bolt patterns are the same (as far as I can tell)

 

I did see that standard clutch 4 speed bell housing in my garage tonight, so it's available for measurements if needed.

 

I also dug through some pictures and found these;

 

The trans side of my FD 4 speed bell housing in my truck

 

And here's a few of the standard clutch 4 speed that's on my garage floor at the moment

 

 

I'll work on more accurate measurements if you let me know exactly what you need. These pics were taken a while ago.

 

Merle

thanks Merle -

 

This week we had a chance to start digging out bell housings, and we have come up with 13 different ones in 2wd trucks, but if we remove the 5 speeds from the heavier trucks out of the mix we find 3 patterns.  There is a light 3 speed out of pickups which are using the car pattern in which case our current adapter plate works just like it does in cars.  Then there is the heavier 3 speed and lighter 4 speed (for want of better wording) and it has the 4 bolt pattern equally spaced on the right and left side,  and the heavier 4 speed which is with the narrower pattern on the right side.  So mirroring what you have shown. I have attached a picture of the two bell housing patterns. 

 

You can actually take our adapter plate and use it on the heavier 4 speed bell housing but it requires you to drive and tap 4 holes. That is not an ideal conversion, but it is possible.  For the other bell housing of the heavier 3 speed and light 4 speed which is

what we think is the other common one from the pickups, its likely easier for us to make a new adapter plate for that application.

 

Tim 

[timkingsbury]

The only difference between a standard 4-speed and a 3-speed bell housing are the holes.

 

So, that's two castings for the light duty trucks, at least: standard bellhousing and the FD. I'm unsure if the FD housing would work with a late model transmission due to the length. The input shaft options would have to be studied for your retrofit tranny.

 

Merle, how much longer is the FD? I see your spare is drilled for both the 3 and 4 speed.

 

Tim, how does the shift linkage work on the 833? Have any pics?

Also, what does the bolt pattern of this tranny look like? Maybe the holes would all fall within the "meat" of the standard bell housing so you could just drill it out?

Hi John -

 

Up until recently when we have been asked by customers about using an a833  overdrive its been for  car applications and we have quite a few customers who have made the conversion. You can get some more information on my blog entry, including a picture of the adapter plate, the transmission etc. Yes the transmission shaft is a different spline, but you can for the cars use the same pilot bearing, flywheel and just change the clutch.  You then need to decide what your doing

for an emergency brake because with the removal of your original transmission your removing the emergency brake that is not in a modern transmission.

 

 

On the pickup side, I have a 1955 fargo half ton which came with the car bell housing and originally a column shift. My Dad put in an a833 transmission out of a pickup in the late 70's   but up until fairly recent, we were never asked about the a833 in trucks.   

 

That is why I started this thread, because despite having quite a collection of trucks,  I didn't have many bell housings loose and out of trucks. This week we got

digging further into the parts we have and through Dodge/Fargo  factory manuals and got a bit more information.   I am only tonight seeing your an Merle's notes

which both are helpful and I honestly wished I had seen them earlier in the week, but hey it is what it is.

 

Check out my blog entry on the topic with pictures etc, and then if you need more info or want to chat drop me a note:

 

fargopickupking@yahoo.com

 

 

 

http://p15-d24.com/blog/17/entry-91-solving-the-modern-overdrive-with-a-floor-shift-using-mopar-parts/