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Misfiring because of worn timing chain?


Go to solution Solved by Kai-by-Vecona,

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Posted

There's no slop in the pulley. I checked that just to be sure. Also when I add up a gap in the distributor plat and oil pump, I think about 30° seems to be a little bit too much slop. So I will try to install a new one. Crank pulley nut seems to be a 1 11/16. Thanks for the help.

Posted

Is there a chance that a valve could be hanging up at higher speeds?

Bill

Posted

I guess not. I did a valve job before and everything looks fine. Think if a valve is hanging up it might look different as the others.. or gets burned if its an exhaust valve...

Posted

Today I found the time to have a look at the timing chain and sprockets and it really shows some wear but I didn't know if this would resuslt in such a slop. I don't know if the chain could also be lengthend a little bit but I think I'm going to order some parts,...

Posted

Another question... ordering parts, I also want to install a new chain case cover oil seal. I saw and andy Bernbaum, that there are two different oil seals, one up to 42 and another from 46+.

Problem is, that my car is a 42 but the block is from 1950. Now I don't know if they just used a new block and installed the old parts or they used a complete engline. On the old oil seal is a number wich shows 1088602. Does anyone has an idea if this is the 42 one or the one for the newer engine?

 

CHAIN CASE COVER OIL SEAL

Posted

If your engine is verified as a 1950, then order your seal relfecting that engine. Is your engine a USA built, or a Canadian built export model?

here is a link to Rock Auto, for a timing chain cover gasket and seal kit, they also have a sleeve kit too.

This is for a 1950 USA built 230 engine,

 

https://www.rockauto.com/catalog/raframecatalog.php?ck[iD]=0&ck[idlist]=0&ck[viewcurrency]=CAD&ck[php_SESSION_ID]=559oedg9b19jvp9q52h4raiun7

Posted

Hi,

 

Engine is definetly a 1950. I bought the car in the US three years ago and it has just been in California and Texas so I think it's a US built 230.

Thanks for the link. That looks good :-)

Posted

Kai, easy way to tell is just measure the length of the cylinder head........if 23" long then its a Dodge/Plymouth engine............if 25" long then its a Desoto/Chrysler engine.........hope this helps...........andyd  

Posted

Hello Andy,

 

I'm sure that it's a Dodge engine becauseI already changed the head gasket and it fits :-) My problem is, that they changed something on the oil seal aftrer the war and I don't know if the after war chain cover is installed or the one from the original enginge.

But when i google the number I found that it's interchangeable with 1064730 1087608. And when I look for these numbers it show's that it might be a 46+ engine.

So I will try to order this one and hope it will fit :-)
Thanks for the help

 

Kai
 

Posted

When I had my 230 engine I ordered a full gasket set to suit it from Best Gaskets, it came complete with the timing cover oil seal.........when I had to repair the front pulley I also decided to remove the timing cover and redo the front seal......the one in the Best gasket set was a perfect replacement for the original 1941 P11 201 engine so it got installed, also had to install a Speedy Sleeve on the pulley as well so my take on this is that the timing cover/crank oil seal is the same 1941-1959......not withstanding various part number interchanges...............hope this helps..............andyd

Posted

@ Jeff .. Of course I will let you know. I'm also very curios if this will help.

 

@ andyd .. I also made a little research and found out, the the measurements seems to be the same, there might only be changes in the material or construction of it.

I also think about installung a speedy sleeve because the pulley is very uneven. Did that work fine?

Posted

Kai, just went & checked the box.......lol........I keep everything.........lol.........it was a National/Moog/Federal Mogul(all three names are on the box) brand, part number 99218, 2.186 -2.192 Shaft.......that number 99218 is also listed under SKF..........trust this helps.......and yep the speedie sleeve worked fine, the Best gasket seal was a neoprene seal, however if you have a leather seal which was I think the original type then make sure to soak the leather seal in oil overnight, personally I'd always use a neoprene seal, but that's just me the hot rodder...........lol.....................andyd

Posted

Hello Andy,

 

that sounds great. I also found that the SKF 99218 might fit and the best thing, I get it here in Germany :-) I also prefer neoprene seals. Leather might be original but I want to drive the car not only repair it and have a look for oil leaks. There might be a reason why there are no leather seals any more :-)

Thanks for the help

 

Kai

Posted

With all the chemicals in cows today it has changed the cow hide quality and therefore not suitible for use as a automobile seal material.

Posted

Rather than use a piece of cowhide would a piece of rump steak work?..............oops...............back in my corner I go...........lol.......andyd 

Posted

Kai........forgive me...it was early and I hadn't had my morning coffee.....lol......let us know how you get on with this............andyd

Posted

No worries... there must be enough room for fun. If not, it wouldn't be a hobby, it would be your second boss or something else that keeps you away from doing things you want to do for fun.

Problem is, it always take so long until things arrive in Germany, but the sleeve is from here so I hope it will arrive monday.

 

By the way, at the same company I found the bushings with the same dimenions used in the distributor. Because the play in the shaft was more than allowed I installed electronic ignition because I heard it doesn't bother so much. But now with all the parts ripped off and having a second spare distributer I will try to install new bushings and have a look if this has an effect.

 

Only thin is, when I completed the engine I can't say if it's because of the timing chain or the distributer shaft play :-(

 

Kai

Posted

Easy enough. Fire it up with the current distributor in it. If the problem is gone, then it's the timing chain, if not, install the rebuilt distributor and recheck. Regardless, the timing chain and seal repair won't make it worse and will eliminate a possibility if neither work.

Posted

Of course, but engine is already into pieces. So I will take the time waiting for the parts to rebulild the distributor. Spring is coming and I want to have it on the street asap :-) Second distributer is worse then the one I want to rebulild so it's just an backup.

  • 2 weeks later...
Posted

So... parts afre here and yesterday I started to install the new timing chain and I have a small miracle. The old sprockets have no markings so I looked at the distributor, set engine on Number one and removed everything.

When I tried yesterday to install the new sprockets, the only way to install the one from the camshaft was a half turn more (See picture).

 

When I see it right, I could turn the crankshaft 360° then the markings match, but then the distributor shows at number 6. When I remove the distributer, turn it 180° and put it back in, then everything seems to be right, but if I think right, the camshaft is not to fire at one as it might be number six. In that constellation I couldn't imagine how the engine ever could run or ist it possible, that the marking on the camshaft sprocket is wrong?

 

I'm a little bit confused.....

New chain

Posted (edited)

The dots are suppose to be as close together as possible.  As in right next to each other.

Edited by casper50
Posted

I know, that's why I turned the camshaft 180° so the points match. But then, the distributor points to cylinder 6. I fliped the distributor so now all markings are right, but as I told before when I disassembled the timing chain, distributor was on cylinder one and I didn't turn the crank- or camshaft. So now I couldn't imagine, how the engine ever run or... because I turned the camshaft 180° the engine won't run any more though all the markings match....

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