OD transmission cleanup - oh what did I do...

[Niel Hoback]

   Don't panic. You've done the right thing, backing off. 

   If you study the shop manual exploded views, and look for the same parts you see in the pictures, you will find that it will only go together one way.  Sure, there are roller bearings, and thrust bearings, but I believe they are different sizes and will only fit in the holes and over the shafts that they came from.  Take it slow and resign your self to doing and undoing and redoing, and you will see how it works, why it works and how it has to go together.  You can do it, it will just take time, Experience is the best teacher.  

   When you are done, you will answer other people's questions because you are the expert.

[steveplym]

I studied a manual for weeks and weeks when I took mine apart.  Had a friends help, so that did make things a bit easier.

 

It's not super complicated, but with all those parts out and thrown about it can be a little overwhelming. 

[Mark D]

I studied a manual for weeks and weeks when I took mine apart.  Had a friends help, so that did make things a bit easier.

 

It's not super complicated, but with all those parts out and thrown about it can be a little overwhelming.

Overwhelming, yessiree.

[Niel Hoback]

Go watch some Red Green episodes and you will feel your own genius in you.  How's that go, "you can eat an elephant, you just start with that first bite."

[Lloyd]

I like to start with a clean table. Then lay everything out in groups that go together in some fashion, shafts w/bearings, retaining clips with seal whatever makes sense. Most times just organizing all the parts will jog the memory and help. But I have found that's always a good start.

Niel is right, after you get it together you will have a very good understanding of how everything works and know what is happening while you are driving and shifting gears. In the long run the extra work and effort will pay off to yourself and others. I will be opening my R7 up before installing it, just to take a peek and make sure nothing is obviously broken or out of whack. I may need some help if it is.

[Niel Hoback]

A good chance to get all those shiny little things out of the bottom of the case. That's a good feeling.

[DJ194950]

 

 

Overwhelming, yessir

I did 2 Mopar OD at the same time-my first manual trans repair! I've been a mechanic for many years mostly electrical gremlins or major mechanical replacement, so all new to me.

I read every Mopar  OD book I could find. Some are now on this forum and some on the internet.  Search borg-marner r-10 transmission. There are several Service and others posted in the resources section for download. However you also need a 49 and up main trans box for std. trans to know how to take them apart as it's required to do as a part of working on the OD section to totally separate the main box and the OD parts.

The can of worms you have opened is a Large one, BUT It does not need the skills of a brain surgeon to be checked/repaired if need be.

Just the repair and parts pages of the main box and the OD repair/inspection parts will do!

 

The can opened when you started removing the Od section from the main box. There is a gasket between the two main parts that cannot be replaced with pulling the two section apart.

 

But nothing says that you need to continue to take apart the OD section further!

 

There is many OD experienced forum members. So lots of help avail. here!

 

Time to start downloading and enjoy the education!

 

You can do it. 

 

Best, DJ

[Mark D]

Thanks for the reassurance gents. Yes time to clean the table of the tools and go at this with some project management techniques.  But I've screwed up the output shaft bearing trying to get at the retainer clip so It's gotta come out and get replaced.  This means that I've got to pull the planetary out of the rear housing. I've got the R10 B/W manual downloaded and printed and will scrub that for the tear down info tonight.

 

DJ you mention a "49 and up main trans box" in your response. Are you referring to a rebuild kit?  I see a 55-56 on ebay at the moment that kind of looks like what I need, includes roller bearings for the input shaft and the large primary gaskets. Anyone know if this kit is available anywhere else?

[steveplym]

Check with nw transmissions, they should have the parts you need.

Main trans box mean that the main part of the transmission is pretty much the same as a standard 3 speed. I found most of my information from the service manual and the borg warner manual on this site.

[DJ194950]

Mark,

I said that because the main box dis-assembly instruction are Not included in the OD disassemble instructions.

Therfore look at main box repair procedures for 49 and up to work on the later boxes may be needed.

 

They may be the same as P-15 boxes. That I have not ever done or looked at that.

 

There is also a change in the type of synchro style  used in the OD transmissions which would make some minor change of disassemble/ assemble instructions. Brass (early) type v.s. some type of "pin type" ?.

 

I have only worked with the early style synchros.

 

Later Parts for the main box my work with the earlier boxes, not sure, A phone call to suggested trans parts supplier would be my next step. I do know that the gasket between the back end of the main box to the tailshaft on a std. 3 spd. is different for the overdrive section to main box gasket.

 

DJ

Edited July 28, 2014 by DJ194950

[pflaming]

Hey Mark, take a good tool box and go up to the camp. Have your lovely wife return home, have the short order cook up the lane bring you meals and then 'lock down' and put it together. Any one who can learn the Finis language can reassemble an OD! It's just a heavy puzzle that's all, much simpler than driving through the Boston tunnel.

[Mark D]

Well, the past two days have brought me two bearings, and a few gaskets from all corners of the states, as well as a wiring harness, lockdown switch and relay from Robin in the UK (many thanks mate!) feeling slightly reinvigorated, so I will head up to the garage tonight and reassess the situation. Maybe start clearing out the mess and setting up the bench for some serious disassembly.

Paul I'm headed to Maine tho weekend, but not to wrench. This time to enjoy the weekend with a few very good buddies.

[Mark D]

Cleaned the table, Read the manual, Grabbed the tools and set in to tear down mode. Quite pleased with myself this evening. (There's that sense of accomplishment coming round again). Washed every thing down, and degreased. Will pick up some packing grease after work tomorrow and then after supper I'll start reassembly before I forget where it all goes!

.

[Dodgeb4ya]

You should check ring gear to rear case clearance about .010"- .015". There should be no excessive wobble of ring gear to case with the ring gear and output shaft assembly slid in backwards to check this clearance quickly.

http://p15-d24.com/uploads/gallery/category_11/gallery_455_11_1359568682_33.jpg

 

http://p15-d24.com/uploads/gallery/category_11/gallery_455_11_1359568682_31.jpg

Bob

Edited July 30, 2014 by Dodgeb4ya

[DJ194950]

One trick I read on several posts that came up with an r-10 trans pages on a web search suggested to also wrap a rubber band (thin) on the freewheeling roller bearings to help hold the in place while installing the tailshaft section.. It really helped me after several attempts with two different greases  without the rubber band  and some bearings kept falling out.

The rubber band will get slide forward with install and cause No problems. Probably get chewed up into pieces in the gears. too thin and small to do anything.

 

Worked great for me twice.

 

DJ

[Mark D]

I read that same thing tonight. Was wondering what happened to the rubber band, or how you got it out. Directions don't say a thing about that.

[Dodgeb4ya]

The shop manual says to use heavy grease. Thats what I always use.

The rubber band will work fine too.

[James_Douglas]

A couple of thoughts.

 

1. I assume you have downloaded all the MOPAR "How To" booklets from the Imperial Web Site.

2. There is a little 1/4" long shaft in the housing that slides into the shift rails.  It is often overlooked and not cleaned and polished.  Find it, clean it, polish it.

3. Take a look at my attached photo of the Sun Gear Control Plate and Balking Ring.  The Balking Ring works by FRICTION.  What happens is that is dig into the Sun Gear Control Plate over time leaving a groove.  This can cause the friction to not be correct.  I hunted down a new one for mine.  You do not want to know what it cost.  Now that I have a couple of used ones...I would consider have a good welder use nickel rod and fill in the groove and then have it machined back down to size.  This does not NEED to be done, but the quality and consistency of the shifts are directly affected by these two parts. I had a trans, rebuilt, that I purchased that had issues in the car.  One of the things that made it better was to deal with this part.

 

I have a lot of photos and documents.  If you want me to email them to you directly drop me a line and make sure you can get big attachments.

 

Good luck.  James

[James_Douglas]

One last thought.  The modern replacement rear seals...

 

These seals are the correct ID/OD...HOWEVER they are micro edge seals.  I have had problems with them over time in my 1940's cars.  The reason is that they are designed for shafts that have a closer tolerance of movement than these old transmissions and rearends. The problem develops in that shafts walk around a bit more and this can wear the seal and it will start weeping.

 

You noted, as I have, that the housing in the old leather seal is much more robust.  Part of that is to account for the shaft movement and part of that is to hold the leather in-place in the seal. 

 

I have had better long term luck sourcing an original leather seal, often having to find several to find one good one, and soaking them in "Neets Foot Oil" for a week or two then "Rolling The Seal" as one is supposed to do with leather then installing it.

 

The leather seals do tend to weep more than a modern seal, but they usually do not get worse over time either...

 

Just a thought...

 

James

[Mark D]

Thanks James - PM sent with my email address. Very much apprciate your offer and all of the other advice that folks are offering. I'm with you on the edge seal, I'm gonna seek out and order the OEM version and wait for that to arrive. While I am at it, I am also going to replace the throw out bearing.

 

By the way and for others that may be following along. I did upload a few more doscuments that I found online that where relative to the OD, specifically the service manual, and some trouble shooting stuff.

 

Mark

[Mark D]

Well, that was fun.... Took me forever to find the time to get back into the garage, but I did it. Several days and several beers later, it's all back together. New bearings, new seals, new gaskets... Worst part was assembly on the non-OD side of the tranny. Now I've just got to wait for winter to do the transplant.

Edited September 10, 2014 by Mark D

[pflaming]

Or wait til next summer and I will come to the camp and help. Looks great, certainly should handle those hlls between Mass and ME. Put a tach on the dash, drive it by the tach and it will level hills.

See you this summer.

PF

[DJ194950]

How can you wait? Must be a very patient person!

 

Looking great, good luck.

 

DJ

[steveplym]

Yeah I had mine in the week after I got it. Its like Christmas morning, no time for waiting.

Looks good, glad you got it together.

[Mark D]

It just may be the case Paul where you could be helping me with the installation, but I am hopeful that it will occur much sooner.  I'm in a bit of a bind at the moment with my garage space.  The place I've been using for the past few years is being sold, so I'm hesitant to start digging into this with the potential of issues that could stall the install.  Until I know for certain that I'm good with a roof over the car, I'll leave the R10 on the shelf where I can admire the work.