Redmond49 Posted March 13, 2014 Report Posted March 13, 2014 The minor adjustors on two of my brake backing plates no longer work - somewhere along the way while I was removing the brakes, cleaning the plates, and painting them, the ajustment bolts stopped being able to turn the cams. I used a pair of pliers to ensure the cams are free to rotate, but the bolts on the back of the plates no longer move the cams. Can this be fixed? It sort of looks like that if I drill out the rivets on the brake shoe clips to remove them, there might be an allen wrench socket in the end of the nut holding the cam, but I can't tell for sure. Quote
Don Coatney Posted March 13, 2014 Report Posted March 13, 2014 The minor adjustors on two of my brake backing plates no longer work - somewhere along the way while I was removing the brakes, cleaning the plates, and painting them, the ajustment bolts stopped being able to turn the cams. I used a pair of pliers to ensure the cams are free to rotate, but the bolts on the back of the plates no longer move the cams. Can this be fixed? It sort of looks like that if I drill out the rivets on the brake shoe clips to remove them, there might be an allen wrench socket in the end of the nut holding the cam, but I can't tell for sure. How can they just stop working? I don't understand? Did you try and remove them by unscrewing them? Quote
Young Ed Posted March 13, 2014 Report Posted March 13, 2014 The minor adjustors on two of my brake backing plates no longer work - somewhere along the way while I was removing the brakes, cleaning the plates, and painting them, the ajustment bolts stopped being able to turn the cams. I used a pair of pliers to ensure the cams are free to rotate, but the bolts on the back of the plates no longer move the cams. Can this be fixed? It sort of looks like that if I drill out the rivets on the brake shoe clips to remove them, there might be an allen wrench socket in the end of the nut holding the cam, but I can't tell for sure. This happened to one on Dads 51 vert and a quick dab of welding took care of it. Quote
Redmond49 Posted March 13, 2014 Author Report Posted March 13, 2014 The dab of welding seems like it makes sense, that would affix the end of the bolt to the cam again. Thanks for the idea! Quote
Dodgeb4ya Posted March 14, 2014 Report Posted March 14, 2014 Make sure to maintain the cam pin height spec . Bob Quote
Dick41 Posted October 5, 2015 Report Posted October 5, 2015 As I surf the forums looking for brake backing plate conversion information I came across this problem posted by Tyson. It is probably way too late to help a 2014 question from him. However, while working on my 41 Plymouth this week, i too found the bottom adjusters (the ones with the arrow) were no longer working on the right front. I had taken the adjuster bolts completely out and super cleaned them on the wire wheel/grinder. What the heck? Right side does not adjust the shoes, left side fine! Same process. Solution: The R/F bolts were not quite seated into the shoe! Seemed like they were fine but they were not. I loosened the bolts, made sure the eccentric shoulder seated all the way into the shoe and then retightened the bolts. Works Fine now. Duhhhhhhh! Any help on this one? I find the top and bottom adjustment on these stock41 Plymouth brakes to be very difficult. I fashioned a measuring device out of hardwood that works like the Elusive Thompson tool. This allows me to adjust the top and bottom of the shoe to very close tollerances with the drums off. I am hoping for a better pedal when i finish. I have bled the brakes until I am blue in the face and still the pedal goes to the floor. One or two pumps brings the pedal to acceptable point and the brakes work fine. There seems to be really good stream (pressure) when I bleed the brakes but the low pedal persists. I am thinking about rebuilding the master cylinder but am not sure that is the problem? Stock shoes are fair to good. Drums are within standards and are not scorred. Wheel cylinders and master cylinder are not leaking fluid. No leaks found in any of the lines. Are there alternative (salvage yard/used) backing plates that fit? I would lke to get to a single shoe adjustment system. Is there an alterntive (salvage yard/used) dual master cylinder reservoir that still allows the location of floor mount pedal in the stock location? Sorry if these solutions are somewhere in the forum. I have searched for several days and couldn't find them. Any help greatly appreciated! Quote
meadowbrook Posted October 5, 2015 Report Posted October 5, 2015 There is a bracket you can buy in a kit that comes with a '67 Mustang dual circuit master cylinder. I have one in my 1950 Dodge. Works well. http://www.ecihotrodbrakes.com/chrysler_master_assemblies.html Quote
mopar_earl Posted October 5, 2015 Report Posted October 5, 2015 (edited) I also have the ECI dual master kit as well as the front disk brake kit. Both kits are nice. Installed on a 52 Coronet with 11" brakes. FYI,the ECI disk kit most likely won't fit your stock rims. Earl Edited October 5, 2015 by mopar_earl Quote
mopar_earl Posted October 5, 2015 Report Posted October 5, 2015 Pumping the firm pedal to get a higher firm pedal is a travel/adjustment issue! Not air, I repeat not air. Air will cause a soft spongy pedal. Do not let anyone tell you it's air. There was just a thread on this where majority of the ppl said it was air and it wasn't. The crappy adjusters on these Lockheed brakes are a pain. Especially if you don't have the ammco or Miller tool to set them. Earl Quote
Dodgeb4ya Posted October 6, 2015 Report Posted October 6, 2015 The adjusters work well and are good if you know what when and how to adjust then IF needed. Quote
deathbound Posted October 6, 2015 Report Posted October 6, 2015 There is a bracket you can buy in a kit that comes with a '67 Mustang dual circuit master cylinder. I have one in my 1950 Dodge. Works well. http://www.ecihotrodbrakes.com/chrysler_master_assemblies.html Any pics of it installed? Quote
Dick41 Posted October 6, 2015 Report Posted October 6, 2015 Thanks to All who replied. After writing the question yesterday, I again checked my pedal- having already adjusted the shoes. Still almost to the floor until one or two pumps. Then have good brakes and pedal firm at about 2" above floor. So, if not air, I guess it is back to the fine adjustment. I may just try new shoes first. Mine are at about 50%.. You all may have saved me from rebuilding my MC or buying a new one. I second the motion *Earl* on the adjuster "Pain". Again, is there a backing plate substitutioin to get the more modern adjuster systems (I think Bendix is the correct term but not sure.)??? Quote
Don Coatney Posted October 6, 2015 Report Posted October 6, 2015 If you have to pump your pedal to get firm brakes there is still air in the system. Bleed the brakes again. Do a forum search for Ammco, You will find a forum member who will rent you the required tool to correctly adjust your brakes. Quote
mopar_earl Posted October 6, 2015 Report Posted October 6, 2015 If you have to pump your pedal to get firm brakes there is still air in the system. Bleed the brakes again. Do a forum search for Ammco, You will find a forum member who will rent you the required tool to correctly adjust your brakes. I agree on the ammco tool. I agree on bleeding the brakes if the pedal isn't firm. But if its firm and low and pumps up firm and high, that's adjustment/travel issue, not air. Earl Quote
mopar_earl Posted October 6, 2015 Report Posted October 6, 2015 Also check your master cylinder rod is adjusted correctly. Thats another adjustment/travel item that can cause a lot of travel on the pedal. Earl Quote
desoto1939 Posted October 7, 2015 Report Posted October 7, 2015 If you have to pump your pedal to get firm brakes there is still air in the system. Bleed the brakes again. Do a forum search for Ammco, You will find a forum member who will rent you the required tool to correctly adjust your brakes. This is rich Hartung and Don was referring to me about the Ammco brake adjusting tool. Contact me Rich HArtung Desoto1939@aol.com 1 Quote
Dick41 Posted October 7, 2015 Report Posted October 7, 2015 Thanks Rich and everyone. i also find a person in California that loans the tool. Can't remember if that is you or not Rich H. I took another look at the r/f shoes last night. They were the most worn. Probably unevenly too. have decided that I am going to go the full route and get the drums turned and buy new shoes. After I get all the needed items and work done I will reach out for the very much appreciated tool. I am also going to look at the rod adjustment for the MC. I belive I previously found a how to do it in the 41 Service manual which I have. As a payback (or pay it forward if you will) I have a hub puller that I will loan out. This is a good one. Three fingers going to the lug nuts...Big thingy that you smack with a very big hammer. Works great. I have used it on my 41 Plymouth and the 55 Studebaker. Both have key axell drums. I will gladly loan to a member of this forum for deposit and postage both ways. Hope that might be of help to someone. As an additional hint: Somewhere on the forum I read that you don't want to grease that axel when you put the hub back on. Instead, use one of those really big chalk sticks and rub it on the axel. Works like a charm for me. Also, caution. Leave the nut on the axel loose so the drum doesn't travel across the shop floor when it finally comes loose. Experience is such a wonderful teacher! Backatacha soon. Quote
Dodgeb4ya Posted October 7, 2015 Report Posted October 7, 2015 Get the shoes arced to fit each drum. Causes a high firm pedal quicker. Quote
desoto1939 Posted October 7, 2015 Report Posted October 7, 2015 this is rich H and I live near Philadelphia PA. Why are you going to cut the drums? get them measured prior to cutting if you over cut them you could have other issues and then would have to shim the brake lining to take up the extra spacing. Can you tell if the eccentric anchor have been moved they should be pointing towards each other with the arrows. So it really sounds as a major adjustment is needed. Adjust the entire system and bperform a minor adjust after the wheels are back on the car. Rich Hartung desoto1939@aol.com Quote
Dick41 Posted October 10, 2015 Report Posted October 10, 2015 i woud only "cut" the drums if they are found to be out of specs. Manual says take no more than 30 thou off of the stock 10" drum. That results in a net diameter of 60 thou oversize. Again, no cut if drums check out fine, and certainly no more than the 30 thou in any case.. Plymouth Factory Service Manual, page 76-87 pretty complete on adjustment & how to do it . Also the use of the Thompson Guage/tool. On Pg. 79 - "These arrows on the anchor bolt must pont towards each other before starting to adjust the brake shoes." They must be turned in the proper direction to adjust the heel of the shoes. That would be the major adjustment you speak of. If heel adjustment is required, the arrows would likely not be pointing at each other when done. Quote
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