B-4-Ka Brakes & Two Speed Axle

[rustrunner]

Posted the same on the CAR Forum, so Reposted here (did not know how to move)

 

Redoing a B-4-KA Road Tractor, and want to change out the Two Speed axle actuator, and the break system.  The truck was equiped with vacuum assist over hyd on the breaks, with both vacuum and air brakes for the trailer - thus there is quite a bit of piping under her.  Also has vacuum 2 speed axle actuator.

 

My goal is to eliminate all the vacuum from the truck.

 

What can I replace the Two Speed axle actuator with?

 

Best way to activate brakes, and still integrate in Air trailer brakes?  Now the brake peddle activated a vacuum switch, which in turn activated the tractor brakes (master cyl over rear axle) and both the vacuum and air brakes for the trailer.

 

Anybody done this?

[P15-D24]

Please just post in one forum. 

[MBF]

I had a 39 Dodge that had a mechanically operated 2 spd rear.  There was a lever assembly mounted on the transmission connected to a rod with a clevis in it  (for adjustment) that ran to the rear 2 spd shift arm on the differential.  I still have the assembly on a parts engine if you can't come up with anything else(you can PM me)    You may want to post your question about the brakes on the ATCA website discussion board (antiquetruckclub.org) Mike

Edited July 14, 2013 by MBFowler

[Dodgeb4ya]

There is nothing at all wrong about the vacuum shift Eaton 1650 2 speed rear axle in your dodge. Those vacuum shift dodge rear ends bang em fast and positively into gear for split shifting hauling heavy loads- and regular easy driving high and low range shifts!  I Have them in several in my old dodge trucks. Way faster and more positive shifting than any lever type. As for the brakes, same story. The Midland vacuum booster down on the frame when working right and good shoes and hydraulics you can easily lock all 6 wheels up in a fully loaded panic stop. I know I have done it a few times in my JA 2-1/2 tonner. Those brakes are awesome brakes. I had a FA truck that had the same single diaphram Midland booster and it also had great brakes. Of course I always would go through them to protect those in front of me

Does your truck have a factory Westinghouse air brake compressor/piping  installed on the truck? If you are thinking of going full Air Brake you will have to get air brake front and rear axles=$$$$$ and a heck of a lot of work and proper engineering.

How does your twin carb engine run? Pics would be great to see.

Bob

[rustrunner]

Dodgeb4ye:

 

Thanks for the info - may rethink plan.

Not going to go to air on the truck, just for a trailer.

Truck has Westinghouse compressor (great shape) - leaving like it is.

The brake peddle is connected to  vacuum actuator next to the bell housing, which in turn is connected to the Midland vacuum booster on frame at rear axle, and also to a unit that activates air and vacuum brakes for the trailer.  Eliminating vacuum brakes to the trailer, but leaving air brakes.  I have never seen a unit like the one the activates both vaccum and air brakes for a trailer, so even if I keep vacuum brake booster, I will replace this unit.

 

Will get some pictures - just starting rebuild.

 

MBFower - thanks for info on other site, will join, - think I have all the parts I need, but will keep your info.

 

Webmaster - sorry about posting on two forum's, but made mistake, and did not know how to move to correct one.

[wallytoo]

i concur with bob (dodgeb4ya) about the efficacy of the eaton vacuum shift 2-speed. although mine is the 1350 version (for an FA), it works flawlessly and shifts very fast. it really does make split shifting far easier than a mechanical shift, and i can't see how an electric would be any faster in "real world" use. my vacuum assist brakes with the midland unit work well, too. i don't see why the "plumbing" would be an issue, it's already attached to the truck.

wally

[MBF]

I agree with the others.  If no leaks, the vac 2 speed works fine, but I remember shifting the 39 with the two levers, and the 2 speed lever was positioned right next to the trans shift lever so it was just a matter of sliding your hand off of one lever to reach the other.  I was driving a truck with a 5 and 4 at the time, and driving the old Dodge hauling dirt on the property was a hoot.   If everthing in your truck works, I'd leave it as it is and enjoy it the way it was designed.  That dual trailer brake setup is pretty rare and will get a lot of attention at a truck show.

[Dodgeb4ya]

I parted out a old "White" that had air to the trailer and not the tractor. I think it was fairly common back in the day. It sure looked complicated though! My 4 ton Dodge has Air brakes on the truck with vacuum plumbed for the trailer. It use to tow a lowboy back in it's hey day.

[Todd B]

When we restored my B3-JA the vacuum system was all rusted through so I removed it.   We just made a bracket to lock the axle in high range.  I never pull any weight in my trailer so the need of a 2 speed does not interest me. If any thing I could use a higher gear. I found a good vacuum system and someday want to put it back as original.  I have hydralic brakes to the truck and I installed an air pump from a 1946 truck. My air trailer brakes is controled by a lever oppiste the blinker switch. When I am hooked up to my trailer I use the trailer brakes to stop me.  It works great and I can stop quickly.  My dad called the trailer brake a "cliff hanger" valve.  My cliff hanger and my foot pedal both control the brake lights and both will stop my truck and trailer. 

[MBF]

When I was driving for a living, using the trailer brakes only was a common practice, and probably the reason that you always checked the trailer brakes before pulling out with a trailer.  A lot of them had the brakes worn down to the metal shoes, but the owner operators' tractor brakes always looked like they had just been replaced.  That brake handle out here was always referred to as a "trolley handle".  If someone was riding right on your tail, a slight touch of the trolley handle would close the stop light relay w/o operating the brakes and would make them back off a bit.  Mike

Edited July 15, 2013 by MBFowler

[rustrunner]

I hope I do this truck justice in the restoration, but think I will.  After the comments, we have reconsidered, and we are going to leave the vacuum brake activation, the vacuum 2 speed axle, and both vacuum and Air trailer brakes hookup.

 

We also have the 1953 Fruehauf 30Ton lowboy that was purchased new with the truck which we are also going to restore.  I will replace the complete rear axle with new air, brakes, hubs, etc.  We plan on hauling up to 10 tons (Cat 60, or Holt 10 Ton Crawler at tractor or truck shows.)

 

Thanks to all.

[Dodgeb4ya]

That 265 is going to be working hard moving 15 tons on any moderate grade! The KA Tractor is rated at 19,000lbs. GVW and G.C.W. is 36,000lbs. It,s great that you will restore that truck! Lets see some pictures of it!

Bob

[rustrunner]

I made a miss quote, a 10 ton lowboy not a 30T.  I would hate to pull a 30 ton behind this truck with the 265.

[rustrunner]

Restore started.

 

Clip is off and engine is ready to come out for the rebuild, and the body going to the shop.

 

 

[Dodgeb4ya]

You have any pics of the ciompressor mounting and cooler line ect? I have never seen one on a 25" block!

Bob

[rustrunner]

Bob:

 

Hope this is sufficient, about all I have of the Compressor Mounting.

 

Dan

[DJ194950]

Twin carbs with govenors below the carbs!

Interesting! Must have owned by a business that needed to keep the driver slowed down!

 

Best to ya,

 

Doug 

[rustrunner]

Just to let you know what I am starting with. 

 

 

[Dodgeb4ya]

Hey rustrunner,

Thanks for the compressor pics and others. All I have ever seen with air brakes, Twin carbs and exhaust is the Molyblock trucks as thats what I own.I see that the air pump on your "k" is air cooled and not oil fed by the engine oiling system as is done on the bigger MolyBlock engines.

Keep us up with your great restoration!

Thanks,Bob

[Don Coatney]

Wow, what a gas tank. How many bucks to fill it up?

[rustrunner]

Restore Started for real - Cab off, Engine/ trans out and seperated, engine torn down except for main's, all Air.Vacuum activators off for rebuild, and frame ready for blasting.

 

Few Pictures - more in another post

[rustrunner]

More

[41/53dodges]

Coming right along!

What is that guage on the dash and the big knob?

i always loved period add-ons like that! even though they cut up the dash...

[rustrunner]

The guage is for the Air pressure,

 

and the the big knob is the Air/Vacuum Parking brake.  It activated the item in the last picture which in turn, puts Air pressure on the  device in the first picture of post two, which activates both the Air and Vacuum brakes.

 

All this is factory for a truck with Air, I beleive.