Dutchman Posted March 4, 2013 Report Posted March 4, 2013 I just put this overdrive in last week and replaced all the fluid in both the front and back. Is it hard to find parts and replace? I’m going to pull it this afternoon and check it out. Quote
Dodgeb4ya Posted March 4, 2013 Report Posted March 4, 2013 If you just installed it last week it should not be low on oil! Re-check both front and rear case oil levels. The rear level cannot be low on oil or the OD will seize up. The noise right before it stopped working in OD is usually the gears locking up from lack of oil. I have been in one car that did just that and heard this story before. You might also check the OD shift cable adjustment too. Quote
Dutchman Posted March 4, 2013 Report Posted March 4, 2013 I checked all wire connections and tested the following: Relay clicks when grounded Solenoid clicks as well when relay clicks Kickdown switch clicks on each forward post when grounded Lockout clicks when grounded Governor clicks when grounded Checked cable to make sure lockout switch is engaged all the way up Still no OD after solenoid and relay clicks after cut-in speed is reached Quote
Dutchman Posted March 4, 2013 Report Posted March 4, 2013 I pulled the OD/tranny and drained the oil out of both front and rear and it had plenty in both. Oil looks really dark for only being in it a short time. Guess I'll tear into it and see if I can find out what's wrong. Quote
Dutchman Posted March 5, 2013 Report Posted March 5, 2013 well I got the OD/tranny out put it on the bench vice and stared to take everything off per the manual. taped the pin out on the manual lockout lever and pulled the lever out as far as it would go which was about a 1/2 inch or so and then removed the 4 case bolts. When I got to separating the OD housing from the transmission it says to tap on the OD shaft as you remove the OD housing so the shaft stays with the transmission and the housing should slip off. That was 3 hours ago and I cannot seem to get the OD housing off of the shaft. something is stuck. I don’t know if it is a bearing or if I’m missing something. Any info would be greatly appreciated. I think I will start a new thread on this as well. Quote
Young Ed Posted March 5, 2013 Report Posted March 5, 2013 Dont start a new thread. Keep it all in one spot so we can follow along. Quote
Dutchman Posted March 5, 2013 Report Posted March 5, 2013 (edited) This is a continuation from Overdrive noise that was posted earlier. to make a long story short. I was on my way to town yesterday and may OD which I just installed last week started to make noise and then all of a sudden it kicked me into direct drive. And I could not get it back into OD. I check all trouble shooting ideas per manual and tested all electrical components and everything seems to be working. I can drive in direct in all three gears & reverse, just no OD. So I thought something may have seized up internally. so I removed the OD/tranny this morning drained the oil out of both front and rear. there seems to be some pieces of metal in the bottom, thin like a remnants of a cage or something. Not good. SO I put the OD/tranny on the bench vice and stared to take everything off per the manual. I took off the universal joint flange/emergency break. taped the pin out on the manual lockout lever and pulled the lever out as far as it would go which was about a 1/2 inch or so and then removed the 4 case bolts. When I got to separating the OD housing from the transmission it says to tap on the OD shaft as you remove the OD housing so the shaft stays with the transmission and the housing should slip off. That was 3 hours ago and I cannot seem to get the OD housing off of the shaft. something is stuck. I don’t know if it is a bearing or if I’m missing something. Any info would be greatly appreciated. Edited March 5, 2013 by Dutchman Quote
martybose Posted March 5, 2013 Author Report Posted March 5, 2013 Well, this Sunday I finally had a chance to get back to this issue. Since I don't have a lift or a jack at the Galt location, I simply pulled out the seat and the floor pan to take a look. While I haven't pulled the fill plugs yet, there was a definite coating of oil around the tailshaft housing, which almost certainly came from the OD unit. I'm going to get some 90 weight gear oil and a small funnel and top it off, while diving into my manuals to figure out where the seal is that is apparently bad. Hopefully I'll try filling it next weekend. Marty Quote
Don Coatney Posted March 5, 2013 Report Posted March 5, 2013 Hopefully a moderator can combine this thread with the other one so all the information can be found in one location. Quote
Dutchman Posted March 5, 2013 Report Posted March 5, 2013 Got a quick question if someone has disassembled one of these before. It’s hard to understand in the manual where exactly you want to separate the transmission and the overdrive when pulling off the OD housing. should you separate at the point where the OD housing and the adapter plate meet or should you separate it at the point where the Transmission and the adapter plate meet. Mine at the moment only seems to separate at the transmission and adapter plate. Hope this is not confusing. I wonder if I need to separate the OD housing at the point where the adapter plate and the OD housing meet. I tried to bouce a rubber mallet against the seam to see if I could get it to break loose there, but it didn't budge. I know later in the manual it says to put a case bolt back in to secure the adapter plate to the transmission housing in order to pull the OD main shaft out and catch the clutch rollers in your hand at the same time. Quote
DJ194950 Posted March 5, 2013 Report Posted March 5, 2013 well I got the OD/tranny out put it on the bench vice and stared to take everything off per the manual. taped the pin out on the manual lockout lever and pulled the lever out as far as it would go which was about a 1/2 inch or so and then removed the 4 case bolts. When I got to separating the OD housing from the transmission it says to tap on the OD shaft as you remove the OD housing so the shaft stays with the transmission and the housing should slip off. That was 3 hours ago and I cannot seem to get the OD housing off of the shaft. something is stuck. I don’t know if it is a bearing or if I’m missing something. Any info would be greatly appreciated. I think I will start a new thread on this as well. Mopar r-10,s have two extra bolts that hold the OD tail housing that have to be removed to separate main case from the OD tailshaft. They are located on the Inside on the (adaptor section main/OD case) To separate the cases on mopar r-10, (does not show these in any repair manuel that i've been able to find). You have to remove the mainshaft out of the main trans box with the overdrive, which involves much more trouble. I had to talk to an retired old trans mechanic to find this out! PM as i MAY have pics somewhere on this computer after the old one crashed and i lost a lot of my pics. Stupid, i had not backed up Ever! Quote
Dutchman Posted March 5, 2013 Report Posted March 5, 2013 (edited) You know, yesterday I ran my finger around on the inside of the adapter plate and felt two straight slotted screw indentions and thought, “I wonder if this is holding the adapter plate on and keeping from removing the OD housing?”. It just didn’t say anything in the manual, so I was afraid to start tampering with those. THANKS for the valuable info! One more question... Do you have to totally remove the main shaft out of the transmission box with the OD in order to get the OD housing off or just out far enough to remove the two bolts? When separating the case I can move the main shaft out a few inches but after that it won’t come out any more. I thought perhaps getting a 90 degree slotted screwdriver in there and removing the two bolts. Edited March 5, 2013 by Dutchman Quote
Dutchman Posted March 5, 2013 Report Posted March 5, 2013 Also, sorry for creating a new thread guys... I thought since this was a new problem and I was not the one who started the original thread that I might have been highjacking. My mistake, I’m a new-be. I do appreciate everyones ideas and input. Quote
suntennis Posted March 5, 2013 Report Posted March 5, 2013 (edited) The OD case as said is bolted to the adapter with two bolts that you can not get to unless you remove the mainshaft from the transmission with the OD. To do this you have to remove the plate holding the transmission shifting levers. This has two balls and two springs that will pop out. Then there are two rods or rails that the shifting forks slide on that need to be removed inorder to remove the shifting forks. After this is done, with ease you should be able to slide the OD and main shaft out of the transmission. When removing, itis possible some of the bearing rollers from the end of the shaft may come with it and if you have brass syncro rings, one may fall into the trans case. It takes a bit of moving of gears and OD to slide this assembly out. Then you have access to the bolts that hold the addapter plate to the OD. This is soo much fun. I guess in all your tests, you did check the fuse on the OD relay.Have done this two times so I feel anyone can do the job. Parts are available,even rebuilt platetary gears. Edited March 5, 2013 by suntennis 1 Quote
Dutchman Posted March 5, 2013 Report Posted March 5, 2013 Sweet! Thanks for the info! And yes the fuse was in good shape. I did notice when draining the oil out of the rear OD drain that there was some pieces in the bottom of the case. It looked like reminants of a bearing cage! So I'm pretty sure the OD is locked up somehow. I'll take pics and show everyone what I find. Quote
DJ194950 Posted March 5, 2013 Report Posted March 5, 2013 Sweet! Thanks for the info! And yes the fuse was in good shape. I did notice when draining the oil out of the rear OD drain that there was some pieces in the bottom of the case. It looked like reminants of a bearing cage! So I'm pretty sure the OD is locked up somehow. I'll take pics and show everyone what I find. May i suggest to look at: 50plymouth.com A member of the forum pete (blueskies) created a site that details his rebuild of a 50 ply. 4 dr. and in the transmission section he details his building of a r-10 OD trans and quite a few pics of parts etc. along with his problem areas. Keep on working on fixing the r-10 trans, there are great additions to our mopars!! Best to ya, Doug Quote
Dutchman Posted March 5, 2013 Report Posted March 5, 2013 Hey Jim- Thanks for the extra files you sent me. I used the maintenance one and it really helped me get the OD separated from the transmission. Quote
Jim Yergin Posted March 6, 2013 Report Posted March 6, 2013 Hey Jim- Thanks for the extra files you sent me. I used the maintenance one and it really helped me get the OD separated from the transmission. Glad to hear it helped. Jim Yergin Quote
Dutchman Posted March 7, 2013 Report Posted March 7, 2013 On Tuesday, I had had a chance to successfully tear into the OD transmission. Many thanks to Jim for the files he sent me to make this possible. I was unable to make any posts until today. So here are some photos of the teardown and what ultimately lead up to what I found: Heres removing the first shift rail or rod after I had removed the transmission cover taken the two balls and springs out and removing the set screws on each shifting fork. Here is the smaller 2nd shift rail removed Here is the first shifting fork being removed. I was not able to get the second Large rail and shifting fork out due to the appearance of a plug. But that did not keep me from being able to remove the entire transmission shaft from the main housing. This allowed me to access and remove the two screws that attach the adapter plate to the OD case. I then was able to separate the OD case from the transmission and what I had left was pretty much the guts of the transmission shaft, adapter plate and the overdrive gears and the OD output shaft. Now this is where it gets interesting! Quote
Dodgeb4ya Posted March 7, 2013 Report Posted March 7, 2013 Did your OD rumble at freeway speeds when engaged in OD? Your Ring gear has pretty severe scoring lines on it. You will need to check the rear OD case for extreme wear caused by the ring gear.The rear OD drum and output shaft should easily pull off the mainshaft. If not the planetary set gears are fused to ther internal sun gear. You have some wear issues it looks like in the what I call the back half. Some pics... Bob Quote
Dutchman Posted March 7, 2013 Report Posted March 7, 2013 Now that I have the entire insides of the OD transmission out in open view I could start to removing parts to see if I could find out the damage. Everything from the transmission side to the adapter plate seemed to look in good shape. Then while looking in the bottom of the OD housing I noticed that there were small bits of chewed up parts. I then attempted to pull the OD output shaft from the pinion cage and roller clutch assembly. It would not come off easily and after many strikes from a rubber mallet, I finally drove the main output shaft away. When the shaft came off there were several rollers that fell out with it and one roller in particular looked like it had came off a some point and mixed it up with the planetary gears and sun gear. All 3 Planetary gears were broken off their posts The damage was clear! So the planetary gears and the sun gear are toast as well and the roller clutch cage which looked really pitted or oxidized. After I pulled the two retaining clips from the pinion cage assembly and the overrunning clutch, it took a puller to remove the Pinion cage and a little finessing to finally get the planetary gears and sun gear removed. So this is where I’m currently. I guess I will be looking for a new planetary setup, sun gear and overrunning clutch. and possible a new rear OD output shaft and maybe more parts. Anyone know where I can get these? Quote
Dutchman Posted March 7, 2013 Report Posted March 7, 2013 Thanks, Dodgeb4ya- I didn’t see your post since I was working on sending my last one out. I will have to check my case for wear. if there is wear on the case does that mean I need to find a new case and if so are they even available? I was thinking that perhaps the chewed up roller was the initial cause for the failure, but the wear in the case may have been. Quote
Jim Yergin Posted March 7, 2013 Report Posted March 7, 2013 (edited) For parts I would call George Asche (814-354-2621) or contact Northwest Transmission (http://nwtparts.com/). I will also check my parts stash. Jim Yergin Edited March 7, 2013 by Jim Yergin Quote
Dutchman Posted March 7, 2013 Report Posted March 7, 2013 Here are some pics of the inside of the OD case and there does look to be some scoring and perhaps a crack at the bottom? Quote
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