Frank Elder Posted August 4, 2012 Report Share Posted August 4, 2012 Now don't get me wrong, I am a big fan of keeping the original front suspension in our cars......with of course the shock relocation kit, disc brake upgrade, and a thicker swaybar lol. But our turning radius leaves something to be desired.....people have installed R&P 3 different ways on here Bebop had a custom install, Andy had his arms[on his car lol] altered by a blacksmith, and then there is the bolt it on approach.......which some people have applied to their rides, which gave the last catagory and even wider radius. My question, to you, is......Would the dreaded mustang II installed in place of the stock IFS give the car a tighter turning radius? This would be a manual R&P........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james curl Posted August 4, 2012 Report Share Posted August 4, 2012 Look at MR Story's car, it has a Heidt or Kugels front end and it took a lot of work to do so, otherwise you have to use a fatman clip for the MII front suspension. As far as turning radius only MR Story can answer that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted August 4, 2012 Report Share Posted August 4, 2012 the biggest deal with the MII front end is the need to change you entire font rails as the coil boxes and such are totally int eh way. The Fatman approach to these cars involve a subframe you get from them that will allow the MII suspension to go on. This inmy opinion is the biggest draw back to their approach on early Mopars. Some have use the DIY MII kits and sectioned and boxed existing frames to accept this suspenion transfer. Other do frame clips, some frame swaps..most think only GM is the suitable donor..I don't buy into that theory and thus do my cips with Mopar donors..there are certain year models that are easier to adapt to the year car you have, there is not a one fits all in the 41-52 vehicles. The clips do give you all modern components, brakes, shocks, steering, beefy sway bars and full turning radii still intact. None are just a cut and weld operation..more into a build than that and is not for eveyone. The ugrade of the stock chassis is best approach for time and money and home build with fewer invasion and need for welding and other special tooling. MII steering should not be considered dreaded, it is a very road proven setup and its design allows it to be set up on difffernent widths making it very good choice for many builds. I do have one here with that front end..but it is a Ford car so its right at home there..lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randroid Posted August 4, 2012 Report Share Posted August 4, 2012 Gents, If Pigiron is ever criticized the bad-mouthing usually comes from someone who is looking for justification for over-extending his budget to purchase the newest and flashiest extension of his anatomy; the sort of ride that has a meaningless name and a life expectancy to match. I generally ignore such ego aggrandizements for what they are but if I ever discuss my P-15 with someone who is serious about wanting to know what I like about it other than driving a solid car one of my first statements is that the turning radius is only slightly greater than that of my '67 VW Bug. Maybe I've missed something in its translation but I fail to see any value to modifying the steering in order to obtain a tighter radius. Granted, there's a reason for having an 18 1\2" diameter steering wheel but that doesn't reflect anything other than a lack of power steering. Please enlighten this ignorant soul on what is wrong with the stock setup. -Randy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted August 4, 2012 Report Share Posted August 4, 2012 It is not so much the changing to get the tighter radius as it is to acknowldge that the radius is usually greater on modifications of the original chassis..if you don't drop the suspension with the modified uprights...you have little worries..it's a personal choice to go with this mod..and for some the experience after it is all modified is lacking and the remorse sets in and the chasing of the "correcting action" to yet have the look they went for and yet come back to the stock or better truning radius..lots of the time this could well be avoided if the person was just to read a few forum entries and/or do an internet search on X subject. Sometimes the problem is new if the person is taking the path less traveled or venturing out on a path yet blazed. But usually these folks are not afraid to start a job ike this due to past experience or the fact that do not min a bit of reasearch and reading on the general aspect and theories behind 'how things work' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randroid Posted August 4, 2012 Report Share Posted August 4, 2012 Tim, It all falls into place and seems so simple when put into simple words. Thanks. -Randy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andydodge Posted August 5, 2012 Report Share Posted August 5, 2012 Frankie........you're right about me arms, really hard to reach the end of the keyboard with them so short........lol........but seriously tho" the problem with rack & pinion installations is that the R&P's generally don't have the same "throw" as a standard steering box installation, which led me to having the steering arms on my Dodge shortened(35yrs ago and I'll deny this if asked, lol)............it works fine but is not for everyone. The best answer I have seen to this problem is that used by someone, whom I can't remember, on this forum who mounted the steering arms "forward", ie, where as the standard mopar steering arms mount via the lower 2 stub axle bosses, this setup had the arms moved forward with the rear arm bolted thru the front boss. Of course this would only work with using a disc brake mount as the mount for the front steering arm bolt. This setup therefore "moves" the steering arm approximately 2" forward which when having a rack & pinion allows the racks arms to attach at a spot that requires less steering arm "throw"..........DAH,DAH!!.......full steering lock!!........dunno if any of this makes sense.......lol.......andyd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Elder Posted August 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2012 Thanks to all of you guys...I guess I was wanting modern car feel without the modern car, ie, a shorter turn radius than the stock amount of the d-24. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Hiebert Posted August 6, 2012 Report Share Posted August 6, 2012 Steering can certainly be "improved" by the various modifications, but I don't think we'll ever get away from needing a 40-acre field to turn one around... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted August 6, 2012 Report Share Posted August 6, 2012 ah..V8 and a slight cut of the wheel, apply gas liberally..big dog will bite its own tail.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plyroadking Posted August 7, 2012 Report Share Posted August 7, 2012 In my opinion you should buy a new car if you want modern performance and handling, preserve the old ones as they were meant to be, if it was easy everyone would have one..... but once again that's just my opinion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeBop138 Posted August 7, 2012 Report Share Posted August 7, 2012 Frankie, the biggest reason for my R&P was for the PS--shortening the lower arms did not present a problem---so I do get lock to lock. But remember I left my ride height the same as stock so I didn`t have any other issues to deal with---such as lowering the car. It works fine, well worth the investment.It ain`t for everybody and I felt trying to find--rebuild--install factory PS wasn`t worth the effort. Cost wise, I am sure I have a few more bucks than going stock---to me it was a better choice to upgrade....Lee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Elder Posted August 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2012 In my opinion you should buy a new car if you want modern performance and handling, preserve the old ones as they were meant to be, if it was easy everyone would have one..... but once again that's just my opinion I have a new car:Dthat's not easy these days either:eek: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted August 7, 2012 Report Share Posted August 7, 2012 I have old, I have new and I have old equipped with new...each car is different and is built based on its' own merit..not all cars are award winning stockers nor worth trying to put back in that condition and we folks that do the upgrades are a large part of the parts recycling that the stockers seek out so to keep their cars as they wish them to be...in my opinion there is room for all..I assure you that if my stock engine lets loose..that means "upgrade time" to me...not worth putting back in that condition..I do no not drive the speed limit of the 40-50's era..so why should I limit my car to that today...? Most my cars were bought body only or with toasted drivetrains to begin with at a very introductory price allow me the free hand to modify without guilt of cutting a nice car..why I sold my 49, for what I wanted, it was either sell or cut..it was too good to cut..sold it, bought a project car.. am sure there are as many here that will modify without a second thought as there are folk who cringe at such a thought.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokeybear Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 I've never had a car that I've left completely stock. Old or new, I just can't help myself. Even my wife's Lexus has had my grubby little fingers on it. She gives me the rolleyes and I grunt like Tim Taylor... ugh ugh ugh... MORE POWER!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty O'Toole Posted August 10, 2012 Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 Mustang II = 1970 Pinto. I would rather have the original or, if I was going to make a change, Jaguar or some later model suspension like Ford Crown Vic. I just don't see the appeal in 40 year old Pinto suspension. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted August 10, 2012 Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 get the Pinto gas tank set up while you are at it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.