Timing issue?

[_shel_ny]

Late 2011, ran fine, parked for the winter nap.

Replaced squared o-ring under oil pump cover without pump removal.

Coil wire off, plugs out. Could not get oil pressure to build up with several attempts. Probably less stress on all the bearings just cranking without oil pressure as opposed to running the engine without oil pressure, but I was not comfortable cranking it any more.

Pulled pump, filled with oil, installed pump without disturbing distributor position, or at least I think it was not disturbed. Engine was not disturbed during this time.

Cranked the engine, got oil pressure to build.

Coil connected, plugs installed. Cranking the engine resulted in some popping through the carb.

When looking at the rotor, with the pointer on the painted line on the damper, it appeared to be past the # 1 plug wire terminal.

I moved the all the wires one terminal, and cranked the engine while trying different distributor positions. Results varied from carb pop to nothing.

The battery was put back on the charger.

The engine was turned by hand to line up the pointer to the painted timing line on the damper. The wires were returned to their previous positions. Pulled the oil pump, lined the slot up with the mounting bolt, turned it one gear tooth ccw per manual instructions, moved rotor to point in the approximate position of the #1 plug wire terminal, taped it there, and gently reinstalled the oil pump.

I disconnected the vacuum line at the dist. so I would not have to fight with it. Lined the pointer up on the damper. Installed the inline spark light on the # 1 plug wire. Turned the dist full clockwise, then ccw several times watching as the light flashed when the points opened. I then went full clockwise and ccw once again, slowly, and tightened the bolt after the flash.

I continue to get popping in the carb, and does not fire up.

I put the battery on the charger some more, and pulled the car over onto the lawn to sit overnight. I had rolled the car out of the garage. I had no desire to burn the garage down, and thought I would get the car started.

I thought it may be flooded from all the cranking, but I am still puzzled by the popping in the carb.

I can give the battery a bit of help with my 12V jump pack, but I don't think that is the issue at this point. I was hoping to get one more season out of the battery, but this is putting a lot of stress on it.

Suggestions? Something wrong with the approach I have described?

[ptwothree]

Did you set the ign. timing to the compression stroke on the #1 cyl? That is the starting point for valve and ign timing.

Sounds like you have it 180 or so off, sooooo...pull out the #1 plug, rotate crank by hand till you detect compression. Continue rotating crank till crank marks and pointer line up. Now you should be at tdc compression on the #1 cyl.

Now the rotor should be pointing at 7 o'clock. If not, fix it without moving the crank. Find the distrib tower closest to where the rotor is pointing. This will be where the wire for #1 goes. Turn the distrib ccw till the points just start to open then lock it down. Install the remaining plug wires in the proper order, make sure the coil wire is attached then try it.

[_shel_ny]

Pointing at about 7, although that really does not make any difference, that being just a common desired point of reference:)

The 180 idea keeps crossing my mind, but as the distributor was not removed, nor was the crank/cam positioned changed while the oil pump was out, I can not wrap my head around the idea that it could be 180 out:eek:

[Plymouthy Adams]

I vote that you pull the distributor...bring the engine to TDC #1 and verify the position of the distributor when reinserted into the grove of the oil pump...though you did not physically move the distributor I assure you when inserting the oil pump, the gear itself will turn as it indexes the cam gear..this will also cause the position of the distributor to move as it will ride on top of the oil pump till rotaion of the engine will allow full seat of the distributor..it is easy to forget that all this ties together when working a single issue of say not oil pressure..and beisde..when you don't know what is wrong..prove what is right..

[RobertKB]

Shel, hope you get your troubles sorted out quickly. Tim's advice is probably very good.

However, I did pick up one good piece of information from your first post. Never heard of an inline spark light/tester. I'm going to get one of those tomorrow as I have a '51 Dodge that has not run in years. The tester is a good item to have so I can turn the ignition key and don't have to be right over the fender checking for spark at the distributor and plugs.

[_shel_ny]

I vote that you pull the distributor...bring the engine to TDC #1 and verify the position of the distributor when reinserted into the grove of the oil pump...though you did not physically move the distributor I assure you when inserting the oil pump, the gear itself will turn as it indexes the cam gear..this will also cause the position of the distributor to move as it will ride on top of the oil pump till rotaion of the engine will allow full seat of the distributor..it is easy to forget that all this ties together when working a single issue of say not oil pressure..and beisde..when you don't know what is wrong..prove what is right..

At this point I will give most anything a shot:)

I do understand that the oil pump gear does rotate as it indexes/engages the cam gear. The manual instructed to make the 1 tooth ccw adjustment to allow for that. What I did not do is have the distributor raised as suggested in my manual. I will try it again with the dist. raised. Again what I am not grasping is, how can it still be off if the distributor was not pulled, engine was not moved, and the inline tester spark is there with everything lined up. I see that you have suggested it, but would the dist. tang actually be able to ride on top of the oil pump gear for 180 degrees:), and if so why the spark when I think I am where I belong:eek: I guess I am just a hardheaded German.

85 in the shade at this point, and J is in the sun. this will wait as I try to absorb some facts. Eventually it will probably sink in, and you (and ptwothree) are probably correct with your assessments.

thanks for the input

[Plymouthy Adams]

I did not suggest that the distributor would ride on top of the pump I did imply that in installing this other things may have been moved..as in the distributor shaft..as it rotates also when removing the shaft..the shaft for the most part is not that deep in the groove...I have no idea if one could actually pressure the two while bolting the pump in to make this happen..I will also not rule it out...so in reality there is a possiblilty that this very thing could easily have occured..

so given the scenario as you stated..while hard to believe it could happen..the evidence is that something did happen..so I can only state that when you don't know what is wrong..prove what is right...sounds stupid or a bit sarcastic I assure you it is not meant to sound like that. its basic troubleshooting...and a realitively easy task to give you that "peace of mind" that this is not the cause..

[greg g]

Start with a good static timig prcedure and see where you stand. Can you get your pointer aligned if you loosen the clamp bolt on the bottom of the dist??

[_shel_ny]

I did not suggest that the distributor would ride on top of the pump I did imply that in installing this other things may have been moved..as in the distributor shaft..as it rotates also when removing the shaft..the shaft for the most part is not that deep in the groove...I have no idea if one could actually pressure the two while bolting the pump in to make this happen..I will also not rule it out...so in reality there is a possiblilty that this very thing could easily have occured..

so given the scenario as you stated..while hard to believe it could happen..the evidence is that something did happen..so I can only state that when you don't know what is wrong..prove what is right...sounds stupid or a bit sarcastic I assure you it is not meant to sound like that. its basic troubleshooting...and a realitively easy task to give you that "peace of mind" that this is not the cause..

Not taken as stupid or sarcastic. No doubt, prove what is right first.

Having read that, I did as suggested. Everything in life should be so simple.

It is running.

It was proven to be 180 out (for how and why, I will never understand) as evidenced by the masking tape being blown off the #1 plug hole as the rotor headed toward 1 o'clock. My wife does not do hot, or black flies so tape was the substitute for a finger. One hand on the belt, one hand on the fan, I ran out of hands to check the compression:)

Timing light showed the pointer right on the mark.

Now for head removal. I saw a small tractor with a bucket loader attachment on my way back from Lowe's this AM. Should be big enough to do the job:D

Thanks for the input.

[_shel_ny]

Now for head removal. I saw a small tractor with a bucket loader attachment on my way back from Lowe's this AM. Should be big enough to do the job:D

Thanks for the input.

Bit of explanation on the above. head removal would be from my butt. Small tractor needed:rolleyes:

[Plymouthy Adams]

boy I did not read that into the equation...!!!!!!! you funny dude..