Front End Help Please...

[Guest DeadBodyGuy]

Hey guys;

Well, I got my front clip off today. Easy money....1946 bizzy coupe.

Now, i want disc brakes and power steering and my gear box is crap, so I called a friend that has a junk yard and asked him how much a front end (from the firewall up) would be including steering column.

He said $350 which I thought was agreat deal. This way I can get a new steering and suspension plus get disc brakes.

My question is................

What type of front end will be best to get?

Which ones will weld right up?

I know I need something the same width correct?

I have a 283 small block to put back in it.

thanks guys

chuck

[PatS....]

Just my opinion, but you already have the best front end you can get for your car!

Disc brakes are a snap www.rustyhope.com

Parts are readily available to rebuild your front end as are parts to rebuild the box.

Thousands cheaper than a clip.

[Guest DeadBodyGuy]

Thanks Pat;

The front of my frame is also kind of rotten so for the $350 and whatever the welder will charge to weld it up, I think this will be my best bet.

I'm just in need of finding the correct front end that matches.

Someone was even mentioning adding my body to a rolling frame.

Thanks

chuck

[Normspeed]

Chuck, I haven't done a front end swap but I did meet one guy who swapped in a Buick Skylark clip. He said it was nearly identical to a similar year Nova clip. This was in a 50 Plym 3 window. He had a 454 in there. Looked like he cut at a point where both frames had about the same width. I don't know how well it handled, the car was not completed but it was drivable.

I got the whole 50 clip from him but eventually I stripped off the good stuff and put the frame part out for the trash man. It was rust free.

[Guest DeadBodyGuy]

Norm....

Thanks man. I was thinking a camaro or firebird front end, but I am worried about the widths being the same.

Buick Skylark and Nova now give me a starting point. Myenigine has been sitting 25 years so we'll ave to probably rebuild it but a small block chevy is easy.

I really don't have the cash for all of the conversion kits and things. I figure I'll have less than $1000 in my front end with a new steering column and brakes.

I'm sure Im not the first to do this, so maybe some others can chime it also.

Thanks buddy

chuck

[Normspeed]

Nova clips are kind of quick to get snapped up from yards but who knows, might be any number of Skylarks out there. I'm certain that's what the guy said he used, and I looked over the install with my untrained eye and it looked pretty clean to me. Factory power steering and A/C too.

I bought his old flathead 6 to rebuild and he tossed in everything he had pulled or cut off off of the 50 for the swap, from wheels and tires, front end to rear end, springs, tranny, pedals, you-name-it.

I know a lot of guys scoff at the SBC swap, but if it's a 283, that's kind of cool and period correct in a way. I'll bet Tim Adams and others here can chime in on the frame/clip stuff.

[greg g]

Early 2wd drive Dakota Pick up is a fairly easy swap and retains your stock wheel lug pattern. Pluss if you can put a 440 in a 283 should be a cinch.

[james curl]

Tim Adams posted quite a few pictures sometime ago on the old fourm, He did two clips at the same time using Dodge Dakota pick ups for clips. I am sure that if you pm Tim he will tell and show how he did it. His method looks like the best solution for a clip that I have seen. I have a friend who installed a "Fatman" front clip on a 41 Dodge Coupe. He has $2500.00 just in parts without installation. Tim could probably do several for that price.

[Plymouthy Adams]

My last clip was 100 dollar for the entire front end

Edited November 4, 2015 by Plymouthy Adams

[Don Coatney]

M devout member of the ABC

Would that be Anything but (big yawn here) Cheby?

[Guest DeadBodyGuy]

Tim:

Thanks so much for the advice. Like I said, my buddy has a junk yard so a Dakota pick up should be easy to get. What years am I looking for/?/?

One more question. Did you use the steering column too??

You also mention taking off the body? Do you mean the car body or just the front end?

Thanks man......

chuck

[greg g]

The early dakotas used 5 lug wheels on 2WD and 6 Bolt on the 4WD. then they changed to 6 bolt on all at some point. Just get one with 2WD 5 bolt pattern. If twer me gettin, I'd be gettin the steering column. Might as well find one with a 318 and torqueflite, (or the 3.9 v6) get them and ya might as well grab the drive shaft and rear end also.........

[Plymouthy Adams]

Two things here..the early Dakota has the correct wheel bolt pattern..the Camaro and Dakota are both the same length column...the Dakota and Acclaim early years share the same upper wheel and wiring...I used the column from a 94 Plymouth Acclaim..I fitted the Dakota but it was just too much in your face even with the better tilt feature over the Camaro that was in it when I got it..the Acclaim is sweet...if you want to use the column shifter it is a blot in, cables are factory snap in (floor shift cable) and the levers on the tranny swap from the 413 to the 904/727 as found behind most 2.5 four cylinders..just get the shift lever...amazing that this stuff still interchanges...my tranny was a 68 model..used the lever from a 413, 94 year...calbe from a 91 floor shift LeBaron...run the shift cable out the dimmer switch hole as I will be using the Acclaim dimmer switch on the column..and yes Don C. you got it right....I had to de-GM the car best I could..got rid of the Olds guages that were in there..I wanted the all chrome dash of the 46-48 as even the 41 dash is lacking in appearance when placed side by side.

Break over..I am wiring the Airbag controller and pendelums in the 41 Bigbutt today. Cruise control and then 2 sp. wipers with intermittant controller after that.

[Plymouthy Adams]

PS: In finding your parts should you have to find all you need from multiple donors

Edited November 4, 2015 by Plymouthy Adams

[Guest DeadBodyGuy]

Thanks Tim;

This has been so helpful. I'll tell my friend I'm looking for a older Dakota 2WD.

Did you mount your master cylinder on your firewall?

How easy (or hard) is it to get the measurements right and get the new front end straight when you reattatch it?

After I get this done, i'll post my old one here for someone if they need it.

One more thing... What is a (and sway bar emiminator) that you speak of?

THANKS

Chuck

[Young Ed]

I should have you guys sending me spare dakota parts! Mine could really use front fenders and a drivers headlight surround

[claybill]

hey....listening to all this , it makes sense to buy that whole dakota, from the salvage yard....take it home and use it all. and it will be cheaper than trying to buy the parts from the guy..

bill

[greg g]

Park the car raise it up to get the tires off. Put it on jack stands,get it as level as possible across the frame, Raise the back and get it on stands also. Put the stands under the frame. With a plumb bob, mark the center line of the spindles in some permanent fashion on the garage/shop floor. Put a string across the frame on the line with those centers, then take measurments back to a reference point on the old frame on both sides. You might want to mark the front ends of the frame horns on the floor also. Then you can position the donor and make sure the front spindles are where they should be.

[Plymouthy Adams]

That is how you make your measurements..however I have the frame jig specs on both chassis....best to go by..

Edited November 4, 2015 by Plymouthy Adams

[Guest DeadBodyGuy]

So......

When I cut the Dakota I'll be cutting it right at the firewall correct?

Where will I need to cut my Plymouth?

Thanks again... this helps so much I can't tell you.

chuck

[Plymouthy Adams]

Do not cut at the firewall..this is not your typical Chevy clip job you want done nor do you want to go the added efforts to weld plate to the frame.

Edited November 4, 2015 by Plymouthy Adams

[Guest DeadBodyGuy]

WOW!! I think I'm a bit over my head..

I'll have to look for someone to do this for me I think.

I'm seeing now the bodies are removed. I was tihnking it was a front end thing only.

Yo Rick....wanna do another ;-)

Thanks for the help...... I'll ask some of my welding gurus (but I can make a 3 day trip to Georgia also)

chuck

[Plymouthy Adams]

This is generally where the most of the people drop out on modifications. It is very much involved all along the way, place to work, time, tools for cutting and welding etc...this has a way of eating a budget all to pieces or flat make the job not one everyone can do at home. ove the body as it is anyway...

Edited November 4, 2015 by Plymouthy Adams

[Plymouthy Adams]

You budget job..equally good..using stock frame with a touch of modern here is my business coupe front end with the do it a home Fatman R&P, disc brakes, relocated shocks

Edited November 4, 2015 by Plymouthy Adams

[PatS....]

This is generally where the most of the people drop out on modifications. It is very much involved all along the way, place to work, time, tools for cutting and welding etc...this has a way of eating a budget all to pieces or flat make the job not one everyone can do at home. Farming it out is no small job either and you are left with whatever the welder has done..and I have seen some pretty bad clips jobs installed and I have seen plenty doen right..hold onto your wallet or your butt..you not gonna keep them both. On a coupe or sedan..lifting the body is a walk in the park..on the 111 inch Suburban..not so..there is no blance point along the rockers..I know I tried, almost dumped the body doing so..I have since found the alternate method for removing the wagon body and putting it easily back on the frame.

Once you commit your car to this line of action it is pretty much a do or die situation. going back stock from here is not like tossing a coin. You still have to major items to consider, steering cloumn and brake, as stock or swing pedal.

Either way I do not think you will find a more suitable way to do the front end except through FATMAN..and that my friend is right at 3000.00 less the expense of labor. I have only 850 in my wagon so far for the job and that includes all the front end from the Dakota, 3.9 V6 with 4 speed atuomatic, AC and sequential fuel injection. New engine mounts and I also upgraded to 10 inch rear brakes from a 5th Ave with all new shoes, cylinders and hardware. The 2.94 rear gears and 4 rims/tires from the Dakota to include dog dish hubcaps. I have done all the work and thus no labor. Both the V8 and V6 still use stock frame mounts on the drivers side only relocated and the right get a extension welded inplace..V6 went 3 inches left and 7 inches to the rear from normal position.

It is not a bit hard nor complicated to do this job..welding is easy as you will flip the frame for ease of welding..absolutely no vertical or overhead welding needed. You may want to look close at your car as it is..most of these bodies can use a bit of new metal underneath..check your cross supports close...you may need to remove the body as it is anyway...

Just a what-if question. The front clip seems pretty involved for an amatuer.

What would be involved in using the Dakota frame complete and swapping the body onto it?

Seems simpler to weld some body mounts to the frame and shape some sheet metal floor sections over spots where it needs it.

Just thinking out loud...sort of:D