MarcDeSoto Posted January 18, 2012 Report Posted January 18, 2012 (edited) I have returned to finishing the restoration of my 48 DeSoto bus. coupe and realize that there is so much work to do on the chassis, such as putting in new brake lines, gas lines, etc. that it might be easier to work on it with the body removed. I always thought removing the body was further than I ever wanted to go, but after seeing a video by the two brothers, The Collector Car Restoration series, tape 1, "Getting back on track", they show how to remove the body from a '52 Dodge. It looked easier than I thought. They just removed about 10 bolts holding the body to the frame, and then jacked the body up with a couple of jacks. Then they rolled the chassis out from under the body and rested the body on jack stands or milk crates. I don't think the engine was on their chassis when they rolled it, but I could always roll my chassis out sideways with the tires on those rolling wheel dollies. So my question is to those of you who have gone all the way and removed the body. What are the pitfalls and is it harder than it looks? Thanks, Marc. Edited January 18, 2012 by MarcDeSoto Quote
Plymouthy Adams Posted January 18, 2012 Report Posted January 18, 2012 the killer is the space to safely store the body while doing the chassis..other than that. it is just as stated..prepping for removal..proper jacking technique...I have a set of 2x4's here at the house with heavy angle iron bolted to it that I use to catch the rocker and the cross bars to carefully lift the body till I get some 6x6 beams under the unit..then I take it as high as needed to roll out the chassis by jacking the 6x6's I have 4 6x6's..two go left and right of the body..two go outside the body and under the fross beams..that way you have plenty of room to roll the frame..you are restricted to rolling the chassis from the front or rear..no side action..the 6x6's sit on jack stands while prepping the frame. I also lift with the doghouse removed..I have taken them out with engine still mounted..its easier if you have a second person but can be done by yourself.. Quote
falconvan Posted January 18, 2012 Report Posted January 18, 2012 It's a big commitment; pulling the body usually adds a significant amount of time and $$ to your project. But if you want a really nice resto; it's the only way to go. I'd investigate the body mount situation; you're going to want new rubbers for the mounts when you put the body back on. They can be tough to find for some old cars so a bus might be a bigger challenge. Maybe someone like Steele Rubber Products could make them up if they're not available. If the thickness is off, it can throw off the front clip re-alignment on assembly. I'd line all that info up and see if you're willing to add that cost before you make the choice to pull the body. Plus, you know once you pull the body and get a good look at it, you're going to see things you want to fix that you might not have seen otherwise, you're going to want a nice, clean, painted frame, etc, etc. It has a way of snowballing. If you're willing to make the time and cash commitment, I'd do it. A Desoto bus sounds pretty rare so a nice, fully restored one should be a great investment. Quote
Jerry Roberts Posted January 18, 2012 Report Posted January 18, 2012 I am pretty sure that he has a business coupe , not a bus . I wonder how much work really needs to be done underneath . Replacing the brake and fuel lines isn't so hard from under the vehicle . Quote
55 Fargo Posted January 18, 2012 Report Posted January 18, 2012 Concourse, #1 and 2 resto, body off frame is the way it is done. On my #3-4 Chrysler coupe, left body on, was still able to doo all work under car, clean and paint floors and frame. If you do not pull body off the frame, remove front clip, great access to front end and front frame.You can do all the work to the front fenders, hood etc off car. You can take off the doors and trunk lid, and do all work and paint that way too. Its your project, your time, and your goal, good luck whichever way you decide to go with it..... Quote
mrwrstory Posted January 18, 2012 Report Posted January 18, 2012 It has a way of snowballing.Probably the most profound words! I'm very pleased with myself for doing this. It's not difficult as long as you take your time and think through the process. I did it by myself. There will be one bolt that hides from you. Mine was behind the spare tire and it was an odd one in that there was not another on the opposite side of the frame. Look closely and you'll see the little stud walls built from scrap plywood and 2x4's. The reinforced area just inside of the rocker panel rests on top of the "stud wall". The triangular gussets keep the assembly from "match boxing" while you're underneath scrapin and paintin. I was surprised to see how rigid the body was. And yes, it does take a lot of floor space. Quote
MarcDeSoto Posted January 19, 2012 Author Report Posted January 19, 2012 Thanks for all the great advice, but could someone tell me how many bolts need to be removed and what technique I should use? Do I really need to remove the doors and trunk lid? I guess most people jack up the body and then move the chassis elsewhere because that's easier. Does anyone have a plan for a frame to hold the body? I guess it's good to remove the body if only to replace the body mount rubber? Is that rubber available from the rubber suppliers? Do I need special jacks or an engine hoist to lift the body? Marc. Quote
mrwrstory Posted January 19, 2012 Report Posted January 19, 2012 Marc, came across this diagram looking for body bolt locations. Doesn't answer your question but I thought you might like the image anyway. Body bolts are not hard to find. Just dig through the rust and crud on the floor directly above the frame rails. It's kinda like a scavanger hunt On my P-15 there were two bolts inboard of the frame just aft of the opening for the removalbe part of the floor/trans cover. I did not remove my doors or trunk. The body was so rigid that they operated normally even when the body was off the frame. I just used a floor jack and several jack-stands,.....and took my time. Don't remember where I got new body mounts but they're out there. Quote
MarcDeSoto Posted January 19, 2012 Author Report Posted January 19, 2012 (edited) Thanks mrwrstory! You have been a great help. I really liked your pics! I just have been squirting liquid wrench on all the body bolts I can find. Are you able to wrench on the top while holding a wrench on the bottom nut at the same time???? I guess I might need another pair of hands for that. I've already loosened the cowl bolts with a 9/16 socket. Maybe all the bolts are 9/16's? I have a three car garage so that helps on the space question. Maybe I'll shoot a video or take some pics and post them showing how I did it. Marc. Edited January 19, 2012 by MarcDeSoto Quote
Plymouthy Adams Posted January 19, 2012 Report Posted January 19, 2012 last month I took the body off the P15...I knew all the traditional places for bolts..except two...the book on the Plymouth has all the frame mounts pictured but not 5 of the bolts..there were two additional bolts and iso pads across the rear frame end and of course there are two that mount inboard the first body mount behind the stationary cowl mounts...then of course look for the torque pad that prevent banging whenthe body twists on acceleration..this is passenger side top of the arch above the rear axle..also look close to see if the cross box support at the the front of the rear axle mounts has a pad position center at the drive shaft tunnel..this pad is not affixed with a bolt..lays in place.. Quote
mrwrstory Posted January 19, 2012 Report Posted January 19, 2012 Are you able to wrench on the top while holding a wrench on the bottom nut at the same time???? Maybe I'll shoot a video or take some pics and post them showing how I did it. Marc. I don't remember exactly how I got all the bolts except that I did it without any help. Three car garage helps but I find that however much space you have, ya can still fill it up in no time at all. Yes!!!! pictures please!!!! Quote
Plymouthy Adams Posted January 19, 2012 Report Posted January 19, 2012 laying out a car for body off, eventual working the body and frame..interior laid out and stored away somewhere..yes..space will be a concern at all times..you must reserve some room for walkabout and fabrication/subsection repairs/cleanup. you look carefulling in the sections I defined along with the obvious body mounts as shown in the frame section of the repair manual (hopefully shown that is) you should have no problem lifting the body..remove the floor pan section and carefull dorp the steering column into the compartment with the seat removed..you should be able to take the frame with steering wheel out...I was able to do this with the 51 Suburban..just be careful to protect the wheel..remove it if you think the clearance will be iffy.. good luck..got the body still in the air on the PLYKOTA...hopefully finish the floor pans today..need to get body back on the frame and see how all the major mods come together..flying by a tape measure only..no option to prefit as I went.. Quote
MarcDeSoto Posted January 20, 2012 Author Report Posted January 20, 2012 I saw on the Car Collector tape that the rubber cushions that the body mounts to are of different thicknesses and you have to keep track of where each cushion goes. Is that the way they are sold Marc Quote
Eneto-55 Posted January 20, 2012 Report Posted January 20, 2012 In this thread http://www430.pair.com/p15d24/mopar_forum/showthread.php?t=30232 I showed pictures of how I removed my body by lifting it from the rear fender mount area and the hood brackets. I believe I kept this attached the whole time I worked underneath it, but it was also setting on 2 x 6s across 15 gal drums. Do you all think that was more dangerous than blocking it up from underneath? (I worked under it for months, and I'm still here to tell about it. LOL) Neto Quote
blucarsdn Posted January 22, 2012 Report Posted January 22, 2012 I did a "off the frame" restoration on my '39 Plym conv. cpe.. We used a twin post hoist which made it pretty easy. We reinforced the body prior to removal and made a cart out of steel tubing w/casters to mount the body to.. The cart allowed us to move the body around out of the way.. The '39 conv bodies have 14 mounting bolts, seven on each side, they vary in length and the pads vary in thickness.. As each bolt was removed the location was noted and the bolt/pad was bagged an identified. After the frame was cleaned and powder coated, the mechanical componet's were reinstalled and then the body was installed onto the frame... New bolts/nuts were purchased, however the original washers were cleaned, treated with an anti-rust agent, and reused... I used the original washers because Chrysler used a very thick "fender washer" in '39 which is impossible to purchase.. I reused the original body pads, which are steel in lieu of composite on the '37-39 DPCD open cars... The vendors will tell you they are a composite rubber. The body sat right down on the chassis with very little if any adjustments needed in any of the mounting locations... A friend of mine that was also having a '39 Plym conv restored had a completely different experience... The shop that removed his body threw all of the bolts and pads away thinking they would buy new... Four years and three shops later the body would not align onto the frame... the doors sagged, etc. My friend finally asked me to look at his car... It did not take me but a few minutes to find the problem... Fortunately I had made "Delrin" copies of my mounting pans which I gave to my friend so he could have them duplicated.. The lesson learned from the whole experience.... Be very careful what you do when you pull the body... You may never get it back on the car... I believe it was Jim B., POC, that once said "the junk yards are full of good intentions".... Quote
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