Voltage Regulator

[Joe Flanagan]

I have posted in the past about there being no reading on my ammeter. Based on some discussion here, I decided to ignore it until I had all my electrical hooked up. But over the weekend I realized that my battery is not being charged. So yesterday I flashed the regulator just to make sure, since I had the whole engine apart over the winter and couldn't remember whether I'd polarized. Then I grounded the field terminal with the engine at an elevated idle and the ammeter showed a charge. So I then focused on the regulator. I pulled the cover off and ran the car and there is no activity on any of the three contacts. I was under the impression that they are supposed to be in pretty constant motion. Does the cover have to be on in order for the regulator to operate? Thought I read something to that effect in some old threads.

Also, I tried to use a points file to give a light dressing to the points but it's too thick for the openings. The manual says not to use sandpaper or emory cloth. What do you guys use? This is a brand new regulator, by the way.

[Merle Coggins]

Of the 3 coil/points in your regulator one, the circuit breaker, should close when the generator outputs enough voltage to be above the battery voltage. This one ensures that the battery won't drain back through the generator when the engine is off or at idle with low output. As my regulator is mounted it is the bottom of the 3. You can watch the regulator work with the cover off, that won't make any difference to it's operation. If you rev up your engine and the circuit breaker contact doesn't close it won't connect the generator armature to the electrical system, so even if the gen has good output it won't go through the ammeter to the battery. Once the circuit breaker contact closes than you can see the other 2, current regulator and voltage regulator, vibrate open and closed as they regulate things.

I'll see if I can scan the pages from my truck shop manual. It has a pretty good description of the regulator and how to test and adjust it.

Merle

[suntennis]

Disconnect the generator from the circuit and check to see if when running the engine around 1000 RPM to see if it is putting out about 6 volts. If the output is 3 volts or less at the high RPM, for starters there is a proplem with the generator. Check the voltage with a voltmeter by connecting one wire to the armature terminal and the the other to ground. If you have a service manual, it will give some ways to check areas that may cause the generator not to charge.

[greg g]

Joe, how are you keeping the battery charged??? If your battery is in a fully charged state, the VR may not be sensing a need to kick the genny in. My car shows barely any needle movement driving down the road at 40/50, especially with no load other than the ignition. After starting, my ammeter will show about a 15 amp boost, but by the time I back out of my garage and get to the end of the driveway it has settled to barely a needle's width to the positive side. This with a 4 year old battery.

If you grounded the field terminal, and the meter jumped to full charge, it seems your genny is working, just that your battery doesn't need any charge. That is one of the reasons I asked about what happens when you put a load on other than that just the ignition. Wait till you get the headlights in and then see what happens with a load on the system.

[Young Ed]

Greg mine behaves the same. At an idle it'll show discharge but anything above that is +. On our honeymoon right before we came parked at the hotel we had the radio, highbeams, a turn signal, and the brake lights on. This netted about 30amp to the minus side!

[Joe Flanagan]

I go out and start the engine every day. The battery gets progressively weaker until it will no longer turn the engine. Then I hook up the charger. I suppose there is a possibility that something is drawing current off the battery but I have not found anything yet that could be the culprit.

So it seems to me that the battery gets to the state where it needs power from the generator. The generator seems capable of providing it but is not doing so. That seems to indicate a problem with the regulator.

But at any rate, I just got curious enough yesterday to run a few tests and that's what I came up with. I can live with it for the foreseeable future while I continue with the transmission, etc. I'll wait until I've got lights, etc. and see if there is any change in the situation.

If my rebuilt emergency brake does not arrive, it will be an All Electrical Weekend. Yay!! If that's the case, I might be wiring my headlights in. Then I can see what's what.

[Jim Yergin]

Joe,

Will you have time to get to Sully on Sunday? I plan to be there with my car and I believe Rodney will have his Studebaker there.

Jim Yergin

[Joe Flanagan]

I don't know yet. I have to check and see what the wife is doing. Do they sell parts there? If you go, what time will you be there?

[plymouthasc]

Joe,

I had the same problem with my regulator. It was out of adjustment. The spring tension and the gap on the points need to be set so the points open and close at the correct times. I am not an expert by any means, but this is what I learned from my experience:

1) Use a strip of manila folder to clean the points. Anything more abrasive will ruin the points and they will burn out.

2) The voltage will drop slightly when the cover is put back on. This is compensated for in the adjustment made with the cover off. The cover is not necessary to make the regulator work.

If you watch my video on YouTube I have a section that tells about the problem I had with my regulator that sounds very similar to what you experienced. I just needed to have the right person bench test and fix the problem. It took him all of about 3 minutes!

Jump to 4:25 using the bar at the bottom of the video to see the section about the regulator.

Mark

Mark

[Jim Yergin]

I don't know yet. I have to check and see what the wife is doing. Do they sell parts there? If you go, what time will you be there?

There is a flea market. I have never found anything I needed but friends have.

I plan on being there for the whole show, 10 AM to 3:30 PM.

I will be in the Woodie area (to the left of the Manor House as you face it from Rt. 28). Hope you can come.

Jim Yergin

[1940plymouth]

Joe,

Will you have time to get to Sully on Sunday? I plan to be there with my car and I believe Rodney will have his Studebaker there.

Jim Yergin

Jim,

PLEASE take LOTS of PHOTOS,

Thanks,

Bob

[Joe Flanagan]

Mark,

Thanks very much for the tip. I'll check out the video. There are specs in the manual for what the gap should be on all three, so I might try that.

Jim,

If my wife doesn't want to go I might just drive out there myself. I'd like to have part of the day to work on the Plymouth so I won't stay for the whole thing.

[Merle Coggins]

Here's what my shop manual has to say about the regulator.

[Joe Flanagan]

Thanks for posting that, Merle. My manual has the same info, which I have read. Taking a look at the air gaps and points gaps right now.

[Joe Flanagan]

Yesterday I studied the procedure of checking the air and point gaps on the regulator. I understand that the air gap is the space between the armature and the magnetic core. This is supposed to be between .036 and .052 (or in that ballpark). The thickest feeler gauge I have is .026. The manual calls for this measurement to be made with something called a "pin gauge," which looks kind of like an Allen wrench. I have feelers for spark plug gaps that are in that range but they will not fit into the space I have to measure. Does anyone know where gauges like this can be found?

Also, I noticed that the one of the contact points on the circuit breaker is bent so that it doesn't make full contact. The two points make contact at an angle but not flat-on-flat like they're supposed to. I wonder if this is my problem.

[greg g]

Take a needle nose plier and allign those out of positio points. Wire type feeler gauges should be available nearly anywhere they sell tools. Pin gauges are usually sold sets with gauges and clamps handles in a box.

[Jerry Roberts]

Can you get buy by combining more than one blade of your feeler gauge ?

[Joe Flanagan]

Well, I got the gauges that I needed and made minor adjustments to the air gaps on the current and voltage regulators and also on the circuit breaker. The points on the circuit breaker needed a considerable amount of adjustment and straightening out.

I installed the thing back in the car and started it up. No change. I had removed the voltage regulator to make these adjustments and when I bolted it back up to the firewall, two of the holes felt like they were stripped out. I began to wonder if this wasn't really a grounding issue after all.

So I attached a wire to one of the bolts and ran it to a nearby ground. The ammeter worked. But here's the funny thing. I shut the car off, removed the wire, and started it again. The ammeter still works. I don't know what's going on but I'm going to address the stripped-out bolt holes and leave it alone for now.

When I revved the engine, the needle jumped past 40. It never charged any less than that when I revved it. At idle it was back at the midway mark. Does this sound normal, meaning the jumping past 40 bit? I would think it might do that for a little bit and then settle down once the battery had enough juice.

[greg g]

Again the reading will depend on the state and conditio of your battery. And yes the Vr needs to be grounded to work. Probably the ground was marginalized during your painting process.