T5 Project

[John-T-53]

Here's the official thread on the T5 installation in my half ton.

After a year of planning and getting parts, I'm taking the plunge. Since my truck is my daily driver, and I'm required to use it more for work these days, the time for an upgrade is overdue. I've been getting a strong case of the 3rd gear blues with the ol' three speed, not to mention a few 'birds' on the freeway (altho that was more often in LA...sorry, Hank). This forum is where I got the idea, way back in my first post a couple years ago when I asked about switching rear end gear ratios. Thanks to all for your help and tons of great advice. I hope to finish in time to make the Clements get-together.

Here's the tranny...built by a gentleman in Texas named Earl Johnson, with a recommendation from another member on the car side who also had one built.

It's a Camaro box with S10 tail housing. The Camaro/Firebird box shares the same bolt pattern as the S10 which can be mounted directly to the truck bell housing. The gears are Ford Mustang 3:35 gear set with 0.72 OD, which should work perfect with the 4:10 rear.

Also pictured here is Tom Langdon's adapter kit with ring, throw out collar bushing, and a ford pilot bushing. His kit requires the chevy front retainer, which I had to order extra.

Edited March 29, 2011 by John-T-53

[Young Ed]

John here's mine. You've got me wondering if I have a proper front retainer.

http://www430.pair.com/p15d24/mopar_forum/showthread.php?t=19419

[NiftyFifty]

So you just cut of the original GM retainer? I know my trans has one on it, becasue it's all complete with bell housing...but if I just have to cut it off that's no problem.

Do you use the Dodge or GM throw out bearing? Guessing the Dodge if that's what the bushing is for...I just got my kit in the mail a week agao, but won't get to the swap for another couple months.....but noce to know what I'm up against before I start

[John-T-53]

This is the Chevy retainer as I received it from the builder. Looking at your pictures it looks like there were different lengths available. The retainer has to be similar length to the original transmission retainer, when used with the original clutch, so it can release fully. The retainer I have pictured below is about 1/8" shorter than the original when measured from the front of the case. I think it'll be fine but I'll do a mock up to make sure.

I'll use the Dodge t/o bearing, with the stock bearing sleeve/holder..this is the good thing about Langdon's kit. The only thing to change is the clutch disc. I was able to find a 10.5" mustang disc on ebay for $49. My local NAPA told me suppliers are no longer selling discs separate. Now you have to buy the whole clutch kit!

[HanksB3B]

Beautiful looking work John! Please (as I expect you will) both photo and journal your progress thoroughly. Maybe this is the way I want to go as I'd love to just be able to rebuild my 4.10, but darn I'd love to go a little faster than 40mph without blowing my engine up!

Thanks,

Hank

[Don Coatney]

My local NAPA told me suppliers are no longer selling discs separate. Now you have to buy the whole clutch kit!

Might be true for NAPA but not true for these folks. If you have not rebuilt your pressure plate these folks can do that too at a very reasonable cost. Give them a call.

Hope you like your T-5 as much as I like the one I installed in my car.

[NiftyFifty]

This is the Chevy retainer as I received it from the builder. Looking at your pictures it looks like there were different lengths available. The retainer has to be similar length to the original transmission retainer, when used with the original clutch, so it can release fully. The retainer I have pictured below is about 1/8" shorter than the original when measured from the front of the case. I think it'll be fine but I'll do a mock up to make sure.

I'll use the Dodge t/o bearing, with the stock bearing sleeve/holder..this is the good thing about Langdon's kit. The only thing to change is the clutch disc. I was able to find a 10.5" mustang disc on ebay for $49. My local NAPA told me suppliers are no longer selling discs separate. Now you have to buy the whole clutch kit!

You use the GM clutch but the Dodge Pressure plate???? Or You just needed a new clutch disc? I know the T-5 from a mustang is apparently different and won't work with the stovebolt kit...but maybe the disc will...didn't know that had to be changed...

[John-T-53]

You use the GM clutch but the Dodge Pressure plate???? Or You just needed a new clutch disc? I know the T-5 from a mustang is apparently different and won't work with the stovebolt kit...but maybe the disc will...didn't know that had to be changed...

Using the original 11" mopar clutch with a 10.5" 10 spline mustang disc. The pressure plate is relatively new/rebuilt and the flywheel was resurfaced about 6k miles ago. I think I can just scuff lightly it with my sander ... what do you all think?

Yes you need the chevy front retainer for the stovebolt kit. Retainers are interchangeable between T5's.

[Young Ed]

Its nice to know I'm not the only one using mismatched parts. My t5 came with a perfectly good looking 9in clutch disk so I went to Dads archive of parts and picked out a decent looking 9.25 mopar pressure plate. That'll be my combo atleast for testing purposes.

[NiftyFifty]

Its nice to know I'm not the only one using mismatched parts. My t5 came with a perfectly good looking 9in clutch disk so I went to Dads archive of parts and picked out a decent looking 9.25 mopar pressure plate. That'll be my combo atleast for testing purposes.

Yer all getting me excited...LOL....SO....can I just go get a stock S-10 clutch kit and use that? I'm guessing the pressure plate is smaller on the S-10 so it should work...I think mine is hooped in my truck and I am pretty sure getting another one is impossible. I will get the flywheel resurfaced at the local machine shop, but if I could toss all that dodge stuff away I would be very excited!

[Young Ed]

You use the OEM mopar pressure plate as thats what bolts to the flywheel. You just put a GM disk in there as that has the proper spline for the trans. The mopar pressure plate doesnt know its squeezing a GM disk.

[John-T-53]

1 - This shows the Langdon bronze bushing pressed into the stock mopar bearing sleeve

2 - The throw out bearing assembly with the Chevy bearing retainer on the T5. You can also see the centering ring installed on the retainer flange.

3 - Disassembly of the clutch. I had originally though I got a bad t/o bearing because of intermittent sounds like something was loose everytime I disengaged the clutch. Turns out the clutch disc springs were hitting the damn flywheel bolts. Not sure why - same bolts as before and stock clutch disk. The flywheel was only surfaced about .050".

4 - The back of the flywheel showing the ends of the bolts "smoothed over". I had to get the dremel up in here to so a little cleanup before removing the nuts.

5 - The back of the bellhousing has some extra holes in it for what probably are for a 4-speed. This is a 3-speed truck so this was unexpected. Unfortunately, 2 of the 4 spd holes are partially where the T5 mount holes go. I took the bellhousing into the fabrication shop where they're trying to figure how to plug them before drilling and tapping new holes. They said it's tough to weld on cast iron because it gets very hard, making it difficult to machine. Last I heard they ordered a special alloy rod that would work.

Edited March 30, 2011 by John-T-53

[John-T-53]

Here's some more pics. These are of the mockup of the T5 in the truck before I took everything to the shop for machining/fabrication.

1. This is the top view looking down

2. Side view.

3. This shows how it looks inside the bellhousing. The trans is not flush with the rear of the bellhousing because the input shaft is too long. Another issue here is the location of the splines. With the long shaft the clutch disc won't be able to slide back far enough to disengage. I've already got a shorter shaft in hand and will install it this weekend....hopefully that'll work. Has anybody encountered this problem before?

4. I yanked the bellhousing and here it is with the trans on the workbench.

5. Here's the view from the rear. The poor engine has been robbed of its hind quarters and is being held up temporarily with some blocks of wood.

More pics to come again soon!

[HanksB3B]

If you had done this before your exodus to San Luis Obispo, and hadn't loaded your truck bed to the point of the Beverly Hillbillys you'd still be good. I'm guessing you ran your 4.10 at 55-65 mph. I know I did that once on my way to Santa Barbara (the furthest my truck's been). I got lucky and just blew my waterpump (as evidenced by that big rusty spot on my firewall. Funny, I can't remember how I made it back. I know I couldn't afford AAA or a tow truck back in 1981.

Thanks for posting,

Hank

[Don Coatney]

The original T-5 I bought was a NWC from a diesel powered S-10. The input shaft was too short and I had to replace it with one from a gas powered S-10 as pictured.

Second picture is a mock up with the new shaft installed.

Third and fourth pictures are the pilot bearing mount I made to do away with the pilot bushing.

It has been a while but if I recall there are a bunch of internal needle bearings that will fall out when you remove the input shaft and the shaft will only come out when it is in a specific position as it has a cut out to clear a gear on one side only. This cutout can be seen in picture #1. Hope you have a T-5 manual. For more pictures follow this link.

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v65/DonCoatney/T-5/?start=all

[Don Coatney]

Turns out the clutch disc springs were hitting the damn flywheel bolts. Not sure why - same bolts as before and stock clutch disk. The flywheel was only surfaced about .050".

I believe your clutch disc was installed with the wrong side facing the flywheel.

[BeBop138]

Here's some more pics. These are of the mockup of the T5 in the truck before I took everything to the shop for machining/fabrication.

1. This is the top view looking down

2. Side view.

3. This shows how it looks inside the bellhousing. The trans is not flush with the rear of the bellhousing because the input shaft is too long. Another issue here is the location of the splines. With the long shaft the clutch disc won't be able to slide back far enough to disengage. I've already got a shorter shaft in hand and will install it this weekend....hopefully that'll work. Has anybody encountered this problem before?

4. I yanked the bellhousing and here it is with the trans on the workbench.

5. Here's the view from the rear. The poor engine has been robbed of its hind quarters and is being held up temporarily with some blocks of wood.

More pics to come again soon!

For more spline travel I had them reverse my center hub so the disc would slide back further---this was using all Chevy stuff---still could help with your problem also......Good Luck

[John-T-53]

Nope, it was installed as you show it here Don...with the raised center hub area facing the trans.

I received the new clutch disc in the mail yesterday, and I picked up the T5 and bell housing from the shop. They did a great job pluggin' and drilling new holes. I'm heading out to the garage to put it all together now...

I believe your clutch disc was installed with the wrong side facing the flywheel.

[Dave72dt]

I see Don has his flywheel bolts going through the other direction than yours. Also as the disc wears, the springs will get closer the the bolts. Check the distance between the flywheel suface and protruding bolts and compare to the distance between the damper springs and disc surface. You need at least as much difference as the thickness of the disc lining to disc fastening rivets.

[Jim Roach]

I have a T5 from a Chevy S10 that has a long front retainer. If I understand it correctly all I need to do is cut the retainer to the correct length. I have two questions. When removing the front retainer do I just need to remove the four bolts and slip it off over the input shaft? What is the correct length the retainer needs to be cut?

Thanks for the help, Jim Roach

[Dave72dt]

The 4 bolts will let it come off the trans. Most likely a seal in there as well. Seeing as you use the old pressure plate, throwout brg and bellhousing, the retainer should be cut to the same length as the one on the old trans.

[NiftyFifty]

The 4 bolts will let it come off the trans. Most likely a seal in there as well. Seeing as you use the old pressure plate, throwout brg and bellhousing, the retainer should be cut to the same length as the one on the old trans.

Good time to change that front seal as well....if the trans has been sitting for awhile it could be dried out...a lot easier to change when it's out, then taking everyhting apart again..

[Don Coatney]

What is the correct length the retainer needs to be cut?

Thanks for the help, Jim Roach

Were it me I would get my own measurements prior to cutting.

[Jim Roach]

Thanks Don, that is what I plan to do.

[John-T-53]

Here's the latest installment of progress photos...

1. The bellhousing is back from the fab shop with new holes drilled and tapped. You can see the remains of the old holes which were filled with a nickel alloy rod, welded to the cast iron. The shop reported: "It was a bitch".

2. I wanted to make sure it bolted together before reinstalling the bellhousing, so here's the assembly.

3. The other side. The welded holes threaded easily. Socket head cap screws work great in tight clearences.

4. The new 10.5" mustang clutch on the left, the stock 11" mopar clutch on the right.

5. Checking the clearance between the clutch springs and the flywheel bolts. The straitedge is where the tips of the bolts would be, 2/10" from the springs. The friction mat'l is about 1/10" thick down to the rivet heads, so should be good.

Edited April 7, 2011 by John-T-53