Robin (UK) Posted March 15, 2011 Report Posted March 15, 2011 Hi Guys, I'm looking for someone to make a relay/switching system for me. I'd be happy to pay for time and parts. I'm running my overdrive with a single wire switching operation, so it's a simple on or off. The switch is currently under the dash, so I have to reach forward to use it. I now have a Shift-Rite gear shifter knob that I'd like to use to switch the overdrive. Here's the problem... The Shift-Rite is a momentary switch, so only makes contact when the button is held down. It doesn't latch, so the circuit breaks as soon as the button is released. I believe that what I need is an electronic, latchable, flip flop relay and I haven't been able to find anything like that for sale. It needs to work as follows... One push of the button to flip the switch to provide constant power. Next push of the button to break the circuit. Can anyone help? My car is running 6 volt positive ground. Thanks. Robin. Quote
55 Fargo Posted March 15, 2011 Report Posted March 15, 2011 Hi Guys,I'm looking for someone to make a relay/switching system for me. I'd be happy to pay for time and parts. I'm running my overdrive with a single wire switching operation, so it's a simple on or off. The switch is currently under the dash, so I have to reach forward to use it. I now have a Shift-Rite gear shifter knob that I'd like to use to switch the overdrive. Here's the problem... The Shift-Rite is a momentary switch, so only makes contact when the button is held down. It doesn't latch, so the circuit breaks as soon as the button is released. I believe that what I need is an electronic, latchable, flip flop relay and I haven't been able to find anything like that for sale. It needs to work as follows... One push of the button to flip the switch to provide constant power. Next push of the button to break the circuit. Can anyone help? My car is running 6 volt positive ground. Thanks. Robin. Sounds like your on the right track. I know an Electronics Guru, not sure when I will see him next, but will ask his opinion, on what may be need to create this relay to circuit to create a continuous on or off, when you hit the shifter button........Fred Quote
Jim Yergin Posted March 15, 2011 Report Posted March 15, 2011 Robin, I am also using a Shift-Rite knob with the overdrive in my '41 P12. Because that switch is normally open I ran it to a normally closed relay I found at Radio Shack. I ran the ground from the O/D through the normally closed relay terminals. When I depress the Shift-Rite it completes the circuit to the power terminals on the relay and opens the ground connections to the O/D. The only relay I could find that would work for me is 12 volt but I have a 6 volt to 12 volt converter in my car to operate my radio so I just used that source to power the relay. Hope this makes sense. You probaly don't have Radio Shack in the UK but if you have the 12 volt converter it may expand your sources for a relay. Jim Yergin Quote
48mirage Posted March 15, 2011 Report Posted March 15, 2011 What you need is a latching relay. I have something like you need set up as a battery disconnect that is operated by a momentary switch. I flip the toggle and the solenoid opens until I flip the toggle again. This is much bigger than you will need for the overdrive solenoid but it might help you in your search. http://www.watsons-streetworks.com/battery.html You might also want to check out there switches tab and inquire about the latching relays. Quote
Merle Coggins Posted March 15, 2011 Report Posted March 15, 2011 I went to that link and looked at their relay's list. They have a latching relay like you are looking for. It's most likely a 12 volt relay but may function on 6 volts. Or use a voltage convertor as mentioned earlier for the control voltage. Merle Quote
Reg Evans Posted March 15, 2011 Report Posted March 15, 2011 Go to Pete "Blueskies" Anderson's page and scroll down. http://www.50plymouth.com/05-tra/tra.html Quote
Robin (UK) Posted March 16, 2011 Author Report Posted March 16, 2011 Thanks Guys. Your answers have really helped. Jim's details were especially useful. I did a web search and have found a 5v latching relay that will probably work. A thread on another Forum suggests this will be OK for momentary 6v input, although I guess I can add a resistor to the circuit. I'll let you know how I get on. Thanks again. Robin. Quote
55 Fargo Posted March 25, 2011 Report Posted March 25, 2011 Here you go Robin this schematic was created by an electronic Guru I know, might be a little over the top, if you want something simpler will get it. Quote
Robin (UK) Posted March 25, 2011 Author Report Posted March 25, 2011 Here you go Robin this schematic was created by an electronic Guru I know, might be a little over the top, if you want something simpler will get it. Wow! Thank you. I've actually been searching all over the place for a solution and I think I may have found one (almost in my own back yard). A guy not too far from here is selling switching modules built to spec for approx $30. My brother-in-law found him on YouTube, of all places! He's going to build my relay in the next couple of weeks. I'll report back on it. 1 Quote
Mark D Posted June 11, 2018 Report Posted June 11, 2018 On 3/25/2011 at 8:13 PM, Robin (UK) said: Wow! Thank you. I've actually been searching all over the place for a solution and I think I may have found one (almost in my own back yard). A guy not too far from here is selling switching modules built to spec for approx $30. My brother-in-law found him on YouTube, of all places! He's going to build my relay in the next couple of weeks. I'll report back on it. Hey Robin - How'd this work out? Can you share your source? thanks, Mark Quote
DJ194950 Posted June 11, 2018 Report Posted June 11, 2018 MarkD_ Are you looking for a latching type of relay? 6 or 12 volt if so.? VW used both voltages over their early years for headlight Hi/Low switching. Have the #'s for either here in my files, just would have to do some digging! ? DJ Quote
Mark D Posted June 11, 2018 Report Posted June 11, 2018 Hey DJ, Yeah exactly, 6V... Had the shift-rite for ages and would like to get it connected. Been talking to Greg G on the phone lately about his install and its got my electrons flowing to get this solved. Bought a couple VW relays off ebay and they've arrived DOA... hesitant to try that route again. Any national vendors sell these? Mark Quote
DJ194950 Posted June 11, 2018 Report Posted June 11, 2018 Well then you do have the part#'s from the dead ones you have. If I remember right there were some # updates but not sure as I was into the 12V. side. I actually got the 6v. part # off this forum that Jim Yergin posted on here along with his wiring diagram for how he used it with his Shift-Rite button on the shift column. Has been several years ago as he sold his car and only shows up occasionally here, but still is around. Maybe a PM or search his posts? Was among some of last posts. If that does not work, let me know and I will dig up my info, 6v. and 12v. wiring is the same. The connection posts on the relay moved around but use the same terminal #'s. I found my relay by googling the part # online and prices were all over the place. Never looked at used only new. Ended up buying from a VW/Bug shop. Good online rep. DJ Quote
Mark D Posted June 12, 2018 Report Posted June 12, 2018 Thanks for that. I've been thinking about this and realized that I got a 12v step up transformer in the car to run some convenience stuff. I am thinking that I will find a modern 12v latching relay and use power off the step up transformer to run the relay. Quote
MackTheFinger Posted June 13, 2018 Report Posted June 13, 2018 (edited) Here's one of the VW relays. I've bought from these guys for a long time. https://www.jbugs.com/product/111941583.html Edited June 13, 2018 by MackTheFinger 1 Quote
DJ194950 Posted June 13, 2018 Report Posted June 13, 2018 (edited) Online search showed this one for 6 volt. s://www.autohausaz.com/pn/13585224-0332204001?vehicle=1954 You may need to add the https: to above link. Less than $20 for this replacement style relay, I had to pay 3 times that much for a original (cheapest I could find several years ago). The 12 v. one mack showed is even cheaper! DJ Edited June 13, 2018 by DJ194950 add https: Quote
Robin (UK) Posted June 13, 2018 Author Report Posted June 13, 2018 It's interesting to see this thread revived. I ran with the electronic switch for a while but the OD was drawing too much current so it wasn't really up to the job. So I now have a VW headlight relay activated via a Shift-Rite knob on the gear shifter. It works really well and the mechanical relay makes a great sound as it engages/disengages giving it a real period feel. The VW part number is 311941581C (for 6v +ve ground). Hope this helps. 1 Quote
Mark D Posted June 13, 2018 Report Posted June 13, 2018 3 hours ago, DJ194950 said: Online search showed this one for 6 volt. s://www.autohausaz.com/pn/13585224-0332204001?vehicle=1954 You may need to add the https: to above link. Less than $20 for this replacement style relay, I had to pay 3 times that much for a original (cheapest I could find several years ago). The 12 v. one mack showed is even cheaper! DJ Hey DJ - The info provided on their web site doesn't indicate if this is a latching type relay. From my very basic knowledge on this subject, headlight relays require constant power to remain latched. Will need latching style in order to use a momentary switch. Quote
Mark D Posted June 13, 2018 Report Posted June 13, 2018 Sleeping dogs never lie too long Robin. Once I get something in my head, (blame this on Greg G), I tend to chase to the finish. - MD Quote
DJ194950 Posted June 14, 2018 Report Posted June 14, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Mark D said: Hey DJ - The info provided on their web site doesn't indicate if this is a latching type relay. From my very basic knowledge on this subject, headlight relays require constant power to remain latched. Will need latching style in order to use a momentary switch. At least (maybe both did ) one of the two relays did indicate that one of the terminals were momentary grounded to switch from one contact to another ( shift-rite push button just tapped) to hold as all the early hi/lo headlight switches worked., which to me indicate a latching type relay.I strongly believe either will work with whatever 12v. or 6 v. is chosen for operation----- but if going to the 12v. with your inverter you will have to use a relay for the power to the solenoid (still on 6v.). I would either way anyway. But 6 v. relays are out there but? - maybe use 12 v. to the relay also? Or --- Have to think more on the 6v. and 12v. usage on the the latching relays-(if 12v. with 6v. . many will-but this one? Should work. Starting to confuse my self a little here. Time go eat- blood sugar must be getting too low/high! ? Edited June 14, 2018 by DJ194950 Quote
Mark D Posted June 14, 2018 Report Posted June 14, 2018 3 minutes ago, DJ194950 said: At least (maybe both did ) one of the two relays did indicate that one of the terminals were momentary grounded to switch from one contact to another ( shift-rite push button just tapped) to hold as all the early hi/lo headlight switches worked., which to me indicate a latching type relay.I strongly believe either will work with whatever 12v. or 6 v. is chosen for operation----- but if going to the 12v. with your inverter you will have to use a relay for the power to the solenoid (still on 6v.). I would either way anyway. But 6 v. relays are out there but? - maybe use 12 v. to the relay also? Or --- Have to think more on the 6v. and 12v. usage on the the latching relays-(if 12v. with 6v. . many will-but this one? Should work. Starting to confuse my self a little here. Time go eat- blood sugar must be getting too low/high! ? Appreciate the extra thoughts here. Will read more tonight when I am back in the hotel room. Been in Sydney for the past week on business, so my day is just starting. Mark Quote
Robin (UK) Posted June 14, 2018 Author Report Posted June 14, 2018 Looks like they are easily available in the US, Mark...http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=C23-311-941-581-C http://www.air-cooled-parts.com/cat/product_info.php/311941581c-relay-for-headlight-311941581c-p-24929https://www.vwnos.com/311-941-581c Quote
Mark D Posted June 14, 2018 Report Posted June 14, 2018 38 minutes ago, Robin (UK) said: Looks like they are easily available in the US, Mark...http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=C23-311-941-581-C http://www.air-cooled-parts.com/cat/product_info.php/311941581c-relay-for-headlight-311941581c-p-24929https://www.vwnos.com/311-941-581c Robin - how does one tell if these are a latching type relay? Quote
Robin (UK) Posted June 14, 2018 Author Report Posted June 14, 2018 41 minutes ago, Mark D said: Robin - how does one tell if these are a latching type relay? I searched the part number 311941581C. It will have 5 terminals, numbered S, 30, 56, 56a and 56b. Quote
DonaldSmith Posted June 14, 2018 Report Posted June 14, 2018 R200, etc. ... Made in Sermany? Where's that? Quote
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