Brakes question:

[Guest mike_D24]

Ok. It could be worse, I suppose. I found that the front leaks are a result of the metal line connecting from one cylinder to the other. The sealing bolts at the ends do not sit properly. Plus, in trying to fasten one tighter, I rounded the bolt like a stick of butter in a wood lathe.

Question is, where can I get one of these? I checked the parts list, but I don't think it's listed there. All the other connections seem fine, except I think I may get a new washer for one of the flex hoses.

Other than that, it looks like the actual brake change went well. I just needed to remove ALL old parts and instead I was reusing that line.

Thanks!

Mike

[bob westphal]

Just what is it that you are talking about here in this statement? "The sealing bolts at the ends do not sit properly. Plus, in trying to fasten one tighter, I rounded the bolt like a stick of butter in a wood lathe."

Are you talking about the brake line or what? Are you are saying that you rounded the fitting nut?

[RobertKB]

Mike,

You are talking about the fittings at the end of each steel line that joins the two front wheel cylinders. This line is always tricky to line up ust right and you have to be very careful not to cross thread it because you will surely mess up the threads on the fittings. Your cylinders should be OK but it does sound like you need to replace the steel lines. Make sure you clean the threads well and if lined up right you should be able to start them with your fingers before moving on to a wrench. You need to tighten those fittings down really tight so I would make sure you use a proper line wrench ( not sure that is the right name) that just fits over the line and then up onto the fitting. Gives you more purchase and you are less likely to round the fitting when tightening. Repeat....those lines need to be tight or they will leak. Best place to get new lines is from a wrecking yard (Moore's in S. Dakota comes to mind but there are others) as the lines are a specialty item. Maybe someone on this forum who has done a disc brake conversion has some spare ones. Hope this helps.

[blueskies]

You should be able to fab a new hard line to connect the two cylinders. Use the old line as a pattern. The ends of the line are standard flare fittings. You can buy pre-flared lines at your auto parts store. I don't know how long this line is, but I think you can get the pre made lines in about 8" lengths and up. If you buy a pre-made line and it's too long, you will only have to flare one end. Use a good flare tool, sometimes the cheaper tools make a bigger mess than what you started with... If you have to cut a pre-made line to fit, you might as well buy a longer one, so you will have a spare to work with (the other half) if the first one buggers up in the flare tool. Remember to put the fitting on the line before you make the flare! (don't ask me how I know )

Pete

[Guest mike_D24]

Fortunately some others were able to filter through my jibberish.

I was talking about the steel line between the cylinders as I mentioned, but now I learned that they are called "fittings" and not "sealers". That's where the fluid was leaking from.

Ok. So I think I got them working well now. I removed them again, checked and cleaned the threads, and replaced them. Now there is no leak. I will probably still need to get new fittings later on so not to have stripped (is it called stripped when it's the head that's rounded?)

I will still need to do a few things:

Clean all parts with brake cleaner.

Measure that shoes are seated and are at equal radius from the axle (don't have the tool, but I bet I can either borrow one, or fab something equivalent).

Adjust shoes with adjuster bolts

Bleed air and older fluid out of brakes.

The wheels are not all grabbing evenly. I think the above list should help remedy or at least identify the problem.

I just needed to get them good enough to move the car back to it's parking spot (I was getting people frustrated with my car sitting in the middle of the lot).

Thanks for the tips. Now I know what to do later on before going out onto actual roads.

Mike

[Brendan D25]

Mike, when the guys are talking about the fittings being stripped, they are talking about the threaded portion of the fittings and as said before you have to be very careful with those. If you have the part where the wrench goes on rounded, then you must be using the wrong wrench or trying to screw in the fitting cross-threaded and using a lot of force. Good Luck, Brendan.

[Don Coatney]

The key to not cross threading anything is to start it by hand before using a wrench. Once it is started and you can get 3 full turns by hand then use the CORRECT (flare nut wrench) to drive it home.

[Guest mike_D24]

(flare nut wrench)

They're called flare nuts. They hold in the flare at the end of the line.

Thanks Don.

And no, I don't have a wrench with that much circumference. I'll have to get one.

Mike

[Normspeed]

Sears sells a 3 piece flare nut wrench set for a reasonable price. A very good tool to get. They work well on fuel line fittings too. You can also get them from a number of online sellers.

[norrism1]

Mike_D24

If I remember correctly all brake line flares should be a double flare. Special flare dies can be bought at an Auto store. The pressure used in braking is higher than a single flare can handle. It worked ok for the old copper brake lines but the stainless steel uses the double flare. Of course it depends on what the original recess can handle!

[greg g]

Hint!!! When screwing in the flared fittings to assured they are aligned correctly tthis procedure is helpful. It can (should) be used with any flared fittings and tubing connections. place the falre nut into the fitting and with hand pressure turn it lefty loosey till you feel the end of the threads click past each other. You can practice this with a nut and bolt to rain your fingers for the feeling. Then turn it righty tighty to secure two or three threads. Then do the same to the other end which will be a bi more difficult as there may be some tension applied to the tube because of the alignment of the other end. However if you do this you will substantially decrease the chances of miss aligning the threads, crossthreading the fitting and rounding the head of the flare nut. Once you have them started on both ends, put them in by hand feeling for any undo resistance. If you feel resistance, start again. Once you have them in as far as you can with your fingers, then use the flair nut wrench to seat them. Remember these are flared fittings and should not be over tightened, as crushing the flair will misshape it and may lead to leaks. Slow and easy is the way to go with any tubing jobs. Remember left to feel the threads click, then in by hand as far as possible feeling for undue resistance as you go, then the wrench at the last possible minute.

[Guest mike_D24]

That was the method I used, incidentally. The main issue was that the lines became slightly bent and would just not line up properly. I had to try and rebend them to be able to attack at the right angle.

Anyway, they seem to be holding now. I was actually wondering if plumbers tape would ever work, but came to the decision that the PSI is just far, far higher than any household pipes and the system is too critical to play with options when failure is just really not one.

I'm going to try bleeding the air and old fluid out today and see if I can get consistently increasing pressure as I press the pedal. I know I saw an article here on air, and the manual seems to do ok for bleeding. I'd much rather have a second person for this job. I usually get a buddy to help with the bleeding on bikes, because they can apply the lever as I wrench.

Thanks!

Mike

[greg g]

You can do it by yourself. Another hint, put a small block of wood or board on the floor under the brake pedal. An inch thick will do. this prevents the pedal from bottoming ou and pushing the MC piston past its normal end of travel. there may be a ridge there which will tear up the rubber piston seal.

The method I use for bleeding uses a clean glass or plastic container, a piece of wire to hand it, a piece of tubing over the bleeder nipple going into the container. You put about 2 inches of clean fluid in the container, put the end of the tube into the fluid ( you can zip tie a washer or nut to it as an anchor to keep it under the surface of the fluid) Then fill the MC and pump the brake 1 slow stroke at a time with the bleedr open. the fluid in the container keep air from going back into the line from the wheel cylinder end. This is not a pump and hold deal, but rather a push and release. If its quiet in the garage you can hear when the air is gone, if not hangin out the door while pushing the pedal will allow you to see the exit stream through the clear tubing (did I mention to use clear tubing?) When the air is gone, tighten the bleeder and move the rig to the next wheel. Just watch the MC level so you don't accidentially pump it dry and put more air into the system. When bleeding all the brakes do pass side rear, driver's rear, pass front, then drivers front.

[Don Coatney]

I was actually wondering if plumbers tape would ever work, but came to the decision that the PSI is just far, far higher than any household pipes and the system is too critical to play with options when failure is just really not one.Mike

Teflon tape pipe dope is designed to work in tapered pipe threads. The brake line fittings do not have tapered threads.

[Guest mike_D24]

thanks shel (and everyone).

Fortunately I read the manual, and most of the bleeding stuff was covered.

The issue I'm working out now is why I have to pump 3-4 times to build up resistance. I'll check all the shoe adjustments again. 2 pumps I could understand if some of the shoes were too far, but 4? Anyway, I forgot to do the bottom fronts because I forgot there were two cylinders. Duh. :\

So maybe between some remaining air and poor adjustments I'm pumping the pedal like I'm having a ho-down.

Thanks for coming on my journey with me. It's going to be a long one, but I'm learning.

Mike

[Plymouthy Adams]

sounds like you may have a bit of residual air left in the line...you may have to bleed again...sometimes it can take a few trip around using the old pump and hold method...

[RobertKB]

Mike, I taught junior high kids for 31 years and I told them they need to learn at least one thing every day, outside of school. Learning should be a life long experience and we are enjoying and following your learning experience about old Mopars.

Some days I learn only one thing but most days I come across all kinds of info. I learn lots from this board all the time and that is one of the reasons I like this forum so much.

[Guest mike_D24]

Some day, when I'm capable of chuckling about it without breaking out into a sweat, I'll tell you about when I had to move the car before the brakes were done the other day. It was right as an upper school hockey banquet was letting out and 85 kids and parents were walking back to their cars.

But that's for another day.

Mike

[RobertKB]

No, I want to hear it now! Can't tease us like that. LOL

[Guest mike_D24]

I see no problem. It says DODGE right on the front of the car.

Now, John Mulders has to get his horn fixed. He has a PLYMOUTH.

That's a riot. I forgot the horn is really just an attention getter, but I have a classic car now, so horns aren't necessary.

Mike

[Guest mike_D24]

Another good reason to have a parking brake that is operational

I need to get on that. Can I tell you I actually stopped the car with blocks?

Technical Procedure:

1) in first gear, bring car to mostly level surface with slight forward pitch

2) at manageable speed, open door, hop out, and begin walking next to car

3) grab body of car and apply gradually increasing resistance to forward motion

4) with car at slight roll, grab stopper blocks and run ahead of the car keeping to the side

5) sight a location inline with car's current line of travel and place stopper

6) step back and stand ready with a second block in case first one misses

Again, I need to get on that parking brake.

Mike