My "new" 53 B4B

[Dodgeb4ya]

My 1952 Dodge was -I say was, a Fluid drive. Took it out in 1972 to run a PTO winch. I have seen very few of these over the years searching through junk yards and Estate sales/ads ect . I'd guess less than 10% were FD trucks? Maybe even 5%. Route vans also had the FD option. Now Truck-O-Matic's were even more rare. Had one once. Have seen 1 other since-ever super rare!!!

[moparmonkey]

Thanks guys!

I scoured my B-series restorer's guide as well and couldn't find anything other than the pricing. I kinda figured that it wasn't a super popular option, although I knew just based on the number of pictures I found on the 'net that they weren't nearly as rare as a truck-o-matic or Spring Special.

My truck seems to have a strange mix of options. It's a Custom Cab, but still has the low-side bed (even though it seems the high sides were more popular). It has Fluid drive, but a 3 speed transmission. And it has a heater and an ash tray, although I'm not sure those were factory. The ash tray slides under the bottom of the dash under the gauge cluster on the driver's side, and the heater is a "Red Head", not the Mopar truck master heater. Although the ash tray does have a matching knob on it. Maybe they were dealer installed? It is fun trying to figure all this out, maybe that's why I have so many projects...

[HanksB3B]

My guess is that Fluid Drives were a luxury that an older driver would order or a promotional special that was purchased at a reduced price. Who knows, dealers back then may have gotten a price break on one if they ordered X amount of this option or sold a higher volume of other models, or Dodge could have required a dealer to purchase one for a demonstrator and it was later sold at a reduced price at the end of the model year. At any rate, since Fluid Drive was an option that could increase the purchase price of a work truck by almost 10%, I reckon this was rarely picked option.

So you mean back in the day someone like Merle would have ordered his truck with Fluid Drive?

Hank

[Merle Coggins]

So you mean back in the day someone like Merle would have ordered his truck with Fluid Drive?

Hank

Back in the day I wasn't even around to order up a new Pilot-House truck. But if I were I may have ordered one with FD 'cause I'm kind of a gaget guy.

Merle

[HanksB3B]

Someone "like" Merle...not Merle! I however remember riding in 50's Taxi's in New York City that must have been Mopars. Plenty of room in the rear seating area enough so they had these flip-up extra pedestal seats for extra passengers. We also had a fleet of Dugan's Bakery trucks that were Step Vans and some of the Good Humor trucks must have been Cowl model Pilothouses.

Now I've dated myself, heck Merle you are probably young enough to date my daughter in Janesville...that is if you are not already married.

Hank

[moparmonkey]

So, something about this engine has been bugging me since I brought it home. Something just doesn't look right about it. Haven't been able to figure it out. Anyway, I pulled the carb today and am cleaning it up, next step is to pull the head so I can see what I've got before I try to fire this thing. And when I was looking through the manual it dawned on me.

Cylinder head nuts. Someone replaced the studs and nuts with bolts. And, since they're marked "KS" and are the grade 8 variety, I'm guessing they aren't intended for their current purpose.

So, outside of the head not having the correct clamping force, does anyone see any ongoing problems from this? I'm guessing it will make it harder for me to pull the head, since I have to worry about the threads in the block.

And does anyone know where I might get head studs for a 218?

[Merle Coggins]

Head bolts are actually right, however standard grade 8 bolts are not. They should be proper head bolts. When you remove them just be cautious as the bolts stick down into the water jacket. If the ends of those bolts rusted up it could damage the threads in the block if you force them out. If whoever put those in used the correct length bolt they'll probably be OK, but... Also, regular head bolts have a reduced shank so that they don't rust tight into the head.

Studs and nuts are available through places like ARP, but the proper head bolts are also available.

Merle

[Young Ed]

Head bolts are actually right, however standard grade 8 bolts are not. They should be proper head bolts. When you remove them just be cautious as the bolts stick down into the water jacket. If the ends of those bolts rusted up it could damage the threads in the block if you force them out. If whoever put those in used the correct length bolt they'll probably be OK, but... Also, regular head bolts have a reduced shank so that they don't rust tight into the head.

Studs and nuts are available through places like ARP, but the proper head bolts are also available.

Merle

Merle whoever built the engine I bought from you did the same thing. And the couple we removed to hoist the engine came right out.

Just be careful and hope yours come out. If you search the forum floating somewhere is a part # for a 350 chev headbolt that can be used in your 6.

[ggdad1951]

I got my head bolts from VPW...very nice parts...and "proper" for these engines.

[HanksB3B]

So, something about this engine has been bugging me since I brought it home. Something just doesn't look right about it. Haven't been able to figure it out.

It's just missing the in-line fuel filter that belongs mounted on the front of the carb.

Hank

[Bradley S.]

That is a great looking truck. I wish I could find something like that around by me. That is just the conditionand price that interests me.

Maybe someone on this forum will buy me one for Christmas. Hint, hint.

Everything by me is either awful expensive or a complete pile of rusted junk. My 48 B1F is danger close to being done and I need a new project!

Merle - You are correct, the first time you stopped and did not push in the clutch threw me! Oh, and that guy we saw running out of the bar by the lake still wants to trade you even up for his 2008 Ram. I am thinking he needs to give you some money in addition to his truck.

Brad

[moparmonkey]

That is a great looking truck. I wish I could find something like that around by me. That is just the conditionand price that interests me.

Maybe someone on this forum will buy me one for Christmas. Hint, hint.

Everything by me is either awful expensive or a complete pile of rusted junk. My 48 B1F is danger close to being done and I need a new project!

Brad

Yeah I wasn't even looking for a project, I have a few too many as it is. But I was really impressed with the condition of the truck, and its hard to go wrong for $500. I've seen other pilothouse trucks listed in my area, but most that are close to this condition are about twice as much money. Which still isn't bad, but its enough to keep me from picking up yet another project.

Merle & Ed-

Thanks for the info! I though these used studs and nuts like the old ones did (at least, that's what's in my '37 218, but that's a 25" block). Found the Chevy part #'s, actually found the exact part at Summit Racing. In case anyone is looking, they're

Pioneer Automotive PG-362-25, OEM replacement bolts. 3" under head length, 7/16"-20 RH. $25 for 25 of them!

In addition to not having the proper shoulder or undercut, the grade 8 bolts will not have the right "stretch" to give the proper clamping force. I'm not saying that the engine won't work, but the actual clamping force likely won't be correct, and that can lead to blown head gaskets or over-torqued threads, depending on which way it goes.

[ggdad1951]

It's just missing the in-line fuel filter that belongs mounted on the front of the carb.

Hank

so there is a filter pre pump AND pre carb?

[HanksB3B]

I,ve seen them mounted that way.

Hank

[Bradley S.]

My B1F has two.

[moparmonkey]

Well, so far I've managed to get the carb pretty well cleaned up, and everything is ready to go to pull the head except for the head bolts themselves. They're soaking in some Aero-Kroil until tomorrow hopefully.

On the bright side, although the radiator is empty, the block is full of what looks to be brand new antifreeze.

And I'll confirm it when I pull the head, but I think someone filled this engine with some kind of oil/kerosene mix before it was stored. The intake manifold has about a half inch of some kind of oil mix in it, looks like oil but thinner, smells kinda like varnish. Initially I thought the smell was just old gas, but that's definitely not what's in the intake. And the dipstick reads overfilled, so I'm thinking someone was trying to preserve the engine while it was sitting. Hopefully that works in my favor.

Waiting on my carb kit. I bought a NOS engine gasket set off eBay for cheap, although the head gasket I'm not so sure about. Looks like steel with a composition center. I guess I was thinking copper, or maybe a Fel-Pro. Thoughts?

[Merle Coggins]

so there is a filter pre pump AND pre carb?

On my truck the bowl on the fuel pump is more of a sediment bowl with a screen at the top. The bowl at the carb has a filter in it.

Merle

[HanksB3B]

My B1F has two.

Hank

Bradley, are you done (or close to being done) with your truck yet?

[Bradley S.]

Hank;

The fenders, hood, cab and nose are all getting patched and painted this winter and I will re-assemble everything in the early Spring. That's the final step. Everything else is done. Ready for 4th of July parades next year.

I can't wait...

[moparmonkey]

Well, I finally got around to working on my new '53 again. I pulled the head, actually managed to get all of the grade 8 bolts out of the head! The pistons seem pretty tight in the bores, not a whole lot of rock, and the pistons and cylinders are still standard bore. The engine turns pretty easily by hand too. Unfortunately, it wasn't as clean inside as I had hoped, the bores are a little rusty. I'm hoping I can hone them by hand a little to clean them up, but I'm not so sure. Here's the engine, and close ups of the worst two cylinders...

What do you guys think? I'm not looking for a lot of performance, I'm just hoping to get it running without having to rebuild it. I'd be ok with it if it smoked a little as long as it ran. But as it sits I think I'd break the rings if I tried to run it without any cleaning up.

Also, the area where the valves sit in the block is pretty crudded up with deposits and some rust. Any ideas for cleaning it up? I'm pulling the pan, so anything that drains past the valves won't stay in the engine...

Edited February 4, 2011 by moparmonkey

[MBF]

What type of coolant was in it when you drained it? It looks like it may have had a head or gasket problem with cyls 5&6. If you wanted to just get it running to see what you've got you could try cleaning up the cylinders lightly, but I'd clean the block surface carefully check it with a straightedge (along with the head). If you don't want to pull the water pump and check the water distribution tube I'd pull the drain plug out of the block and start flushing the water jacket and wiring it out through the coolant passages in the block to get rid of as much crud as possible. I'll bet you're going to have to go through this engine, but a 1/2 day's work should get it running so at least you can see whacha got. Good luck, and keep us posted. Mike

[Young Ed]

After a hone it should run without causing issues but as you said you'll probably burn a little oil on those two. Dads former 50 ply 2dr had one cylinder that was that rusty or worse and after new rings it was a great little runner.

[moparmonkey]

MB- It had the standard green antifreeze in it, actually looked pretty new/clean. I see what you're saying about 5-6, looks like more scale than the others on the block. The drain is already out of the engine, I was actually surprised how clean the coolant was coming out. Not sure I want to pull the distribution tube at this point, but I guess I should probably think about it.

I have a gasket kit for it already, my hope was to clean it up, hit the cylinders with a 3 jaw hone and see if it'll run. Supposedly it was "running when parked" because of electrical issues 5 or so years ago. Obviously sometime in the near future the engine will have to be gone through and rebuilt, but I already have a couple projects going right now so I'd like to be able to run it, as is, for the summer at least...

Hopefully today I'll get time to pull the manifolds and take a better look at the valves.

[Merle Coggins]

I have a gasket kit for it already, my hope was to clean it up, hit the cylinders with a 3 jaw hone and see if it'll run.

I'd probably use a ball hone just to polish up the cylinder walls a bit and knock any edges off of the rusty spots. It should be fine, but as you say it may smoke a little. It should get you by until you're ready for a full blown rebuild.

Merle

[moparmonkey]

I'd probably use a ball hone just to polish up the cylinder walls a bit and knock any edges off of the rusty spots. It should be fine, but as you say it may smoke a little. It should get you by until you're ready for a full blown rebuild.

Merle

Something like this Merle? What grit would you recommend? Looks like they come in 120, 180, 320, 400, and 600 grit...