Bonneville Day 3

[Allen I.]

So you can say your pilot house went faster than a car with NOS?

Cu Inches aside, how many of us can say that? :D

[48Dodger]

Don, you never cease to amaze me. I can't seem to read the stats sheets, but I believe you. Burt's name was mentioned a lot while we were there, maybe because of the movie, because he was so well like, or maybe becaus of all the records, I don't know. Just seems to make sense you met him. lol

48D

[Don Coatney]

The guys name is Eric Nordlof.

48D

Eric used to post on this forum several years ago. Somewhere in my arcives I have a couple of pictures of his Bonneville racer that he sent me. Good to hear he is still at it.

[Reg Evans]

Oh yeah......I thought I recognized his car from posts here a few years ago.

[Bob_Koch]

Timings from Bonneville runs are listed now. Tim and I ran in the 130 MPH Club on Thursday . Zak (they spelled Zack) ran on Friday.

http://saltflats.com/2010_WOS.htm

Copied this from the Saltflats.com website. It gives an idea of what the surface is like:

The racing surface at Bonneville is funny stuff. Hard to describe. As it's a natural surface, it can exhibit great variability. You can get an idea of the nature of this racing surface by doing your own experiment. Take a whole box of table salt and pour it onto a pie plate. Spread it out smooth, so you have a layer about ½” thick. At this point it is like sand. Loose, granular, and not anything you would want to race on. Now fill the plate with water. Don’t just dampen, fill it so you have standing water above the level of the salt. Mother Nature fills Bonneville with water to well above the salt every year. Now, let it sit to dry. It will take a few days or even a few weeks to really dry. When it is truly dry, the salt will have changed. It will no longer be loose and granular like sand. It will have become a single solid mass. Hard, crusty, white, abrasive, gritty, it would seem like an excellent traction surface. But is it?? You will notice that while it is hard, and seems to withstand a blow or major direct assault, if you rub it gently, it sheds a powdery granular material. It is that loose, shed, surface material that is the major problem with Bonneville Traction. Just a bit of the loose granular material goes a long ways. If you imagine that powder as behaving like just a slight dusting of sand over asphalt, you begin to get an idea of what must be going on at the tire/track interface at 200 MPH.

If you rev up a car and drop the clutch at Bonneville, you can lay some pretty cool rubber stripes on the salt. The salt surface is plenty tough enough to pull rubber off the tires. But you will also notice that that same process digs trenches in the salt. Depending on the particular spot you choose for your burnout experiment, the trenches might be 1/16” of an inch, or one and a half inches deep. Like I said, the salt surface varies. It's not much like pavement.\

here;s the full article: http://saltflats.com/traction.html

Edited September 22, 2010 by Bob_Koch
more info

[48Dodger]

Good article Bob. I also read Bonneville is the oldest race track in the states.

note:

Ma son's name is Zachary...Zac...Zach ...."Zee"... or "ice man"....

He's to polite to correct anyone......

48D

[greg g]

talk about variable surfaces, didn't Barney Oldfield set some speed records on a frozen lake??? I kow ihave driven an indicated 93 mph on ice on tires modified for ice racing, It felt pretty stable.

[Merle Coggins]

... I think with the taller and narrow tires we'll have better luck.

48D

Wouldn't you want a wider tire to get a bigger footprint and more bite in the salt? A skinny tire would dig down easier. In snow that's good because you want to get down through the snow to the pavement. In the salt there is no solid bottom to get to. I would equate it to being on the beach where you would want a wider tire for lower ground pressure so you can stay on top of it.

That's my theory... maybe I'm all wet.

[Bob_Koch]

It all sounds logical, Merle, but the opposite is true:

Here's part of the article about traction:

"Experience shows that narrow tires provide better traction at Bonneville. Bonneville traction strategy requires just about the opposite to what works at the local drag strip.

My own unproven theory explaining this fact is that, at speed, wide tires sort of “Hydroplane” on this bit of loose material. I also suspect that wide tires at speed are near “Hydroplaning” on air alone. It must take “some” time to force the air outward towards the side of the tire, and at “some” speed, air would pile up and be forced under the tire, eventually providing about the same traction one finds on an Air Hockey table. The narrow tires, especially ones with little tread, a rounded profile, run at maximum recommended inflation pressures, have less tendency to trap air and seem better able to bite thru the loose dusting on top. The proof of this is in the pudding. Look at the photos of the Bonneville cars that have proven to be fast. Drive tires on the successful cars and bikes are, narrow with a very pronounced round profile. That round shape, combined with high tireair pressure yields a very small “tire contact patch”. As unlikely as that combination sounds, it is the proven winner on the salt."

http://saltflats.com/traction.html

What was suprising to me was in my 5th run I pushed the truck harder than I had before, expecting that I had done really well, and got the worst speed. Ed, our timing official figured it was slippage on the salt. Then he added this comment, "the salt will humble you.:" I felt humbled.

[Merle Coggins]

I guess that makes sense too. Thanks for straightening me out, Bob.

Merle

[Bob_Koch]

OK guys, here ya go. Videos of Tim's first run and his 100MPH posting.

Tim wasn't able to make the rookie meeting because he was dealing with registration, so the official had to verbally give him info about the course.

http://dodgepilothouseclub.org/videos/Clips%20-%2001%2035_MP4%20512%20NTSC%20Download.mp4

Same thing but on YouTube:

Starting line and send off. If you can hear the audio the officials talk about this being a real hot rod.

http://dodgepilothouseclub.org/videos/Clips%20-%2001%2039_MP4%20512%20NTSC%20Download.mp4

Here's the YouTube link if the above doesn't work:

Tim gets 100.6MPH!

http://dodgepilothouseclub.org/videos/Clips%20-%2001%2050_MP4%20512%20NTSC%20Download.mp4

The YouTube version:

The original links are in mp4 format, which is apple quicktime. Some people may have trouble with this so I uploaded to YouTube and added those links. Hopefully this works for everyone.

Edited September 24, 2010 by Bob_Koch
new info

[greg g]

files don't open.

[Don Coatney]

One thing I learned on the salt. Go hammer down off the line. Dont go to mile marker 1 or 2 and then go hammer down, best times are hammer down from the git go. The salt slippage gets worse at the higher speeds.

[Don Coatney]

files don't open.

Did open for me.

[Bob_Koch]

One thing I learned on the salt. Go hammer down off the line. Dont go to mile marker 1 or 2 and then go hammer down, best times are hammer down from the git go. The salt slippage gets worse at the higher speeds.

Why didn't you tell me this Before I went to Bonneville?

[Don Coatney]

Why didn't you tell me this Before I went to Bonneville?

Whoops! Sorry! I simply forgot until this thresd got me to thinking about everything I forgot. Now I cant think about anything except what I forgot:confused: I forgot what I was going to say but I am thinking about it.

[48Dodger]

One thing I learned on the salt. Go hammer down off the line. Dont go to mile marker 1 or 2 and then go hammer down, best times are hammer down from the git go. The salt slippage gets worse at the higher speeds.

Ya...thanks Don...I could have gotten 100.7.....!

:D48D

[tysouthwick]

You need more stickers they make you go faster. Its funny I live in utah but I have never been to the salt flats

[48Dodger]

Ten years ago....almost.

Time to go back.....................................................

 

48D