My "duh" moment

[Jim Yergin]

I have been dealing with the problem of my re-assembled engine locking up after a quarter turn. Dumb me thought the problem was a couple of replacement valves hitting the head. I determined that it didn't matter which valves were in which cylinder, the motor still would jam. Went ahead and replaced the camshaft on the chance that when the #3 piston disintegrated and demolished the engine, the camshaft some how became distorted. Of course I managed to gouge the front camshaft bearing when I removed the camshaft but thanks to Joe Flanagan's generosity, I used his spare as a replacement. With the new camshaft in place I figured my problem had to be solved. No such luck. It was only then that I took a real close look at the pistons and discovered that piston #3 appeared to come up higher than the others. Sure enough, it rises about a 1/16th of an inch higher. With it removed, the motor turns over fine. Apparently the replacement connecting rod I purchased from Vintage Power Wagons for cylinder #3 is too long. In checking their catalog I see that they sell connecting rods for 251 CI engines that are 1/16th of inch longer than the ones for a 230. I guess they sent me the wrong one by mistake. Will call them on Monday and check it out. I feel very dumb, but relieved to finally know what the problem is and that it should be a fairly easy fix.

Jim Yergin

[james curl]

I an suprised that a rod from a 251 cu in long block engine would even go into a 218/230 short block engine. The long block does not have off set rods but straight rods. On the long block each cylinder is centered over each throw on the crank where as the short block the cylinders do not sit centered over the crank throws thus requiring off set rods.

[Jim Yergin]

James,

That is interesting. The replacement rod definitely has an off-set.

Jim Yergin

[P-12 Tommy]

Jim, I'm sure glad you found the problem. Now you can finish it and drive that bugger.

Tom

[james curl]

Jim, looking in my motors manual the only rod that MoPar made with a crank throw diameter of 2.062 is Plymouth 218, Dodge 230, and De Soto V8 of 276 cu In. The Chrysler and De Soto I/6 all have a 2.125" crank throw diameter. I do not have the specs for the rod lengths in my books, but if it was a V8 rod it could be off set some. I would be interested in knowing what engine the rod fits in. Didn't you replace the piston at the same time? Could the piston pin location be different in the new piston than the other pistons? The Chrysler straight eight shares the bore size with the 218 Plymouth and the 218/230 Dodge I/6 at 3 1/4"diameter. The Chrysler has a longer stroke than the Plymouth/Dodge I/6s and it is possible the piston pin location is lower on the piston than the Plymouth/Dodge pistons, you would think higher but you never know.

Edited July 18, 2010 by james curl
added Chrysler I/8 bore size

[Jim Yergin]

James, I ended up replacing all 6 pistons. They all came out of the same box and should be the same. I wonder what is going on here? I will double check the pin placement to be sure. I think I am going to order a replacement rod from another source and see what I get.

Thanks.

Jim Yergin

[Tom Skinner]

Jim,

Thanks for posting this Thread. I remember attempting to put a Baldwin "Tear Drop" Tongue and Groove Lock onto a $500 Door Leaf once using the Template to locate the Holes to be bored.

You guesed it - wrong Template for that Lock in the $150 Lock Box.

I ate that Door because the Lock didn't fit, the owner saw it correctly as my mistake.

One expensive lesson learned was always check all dimensions using a ruler, calipers micrometers etc. against all other things considered.

You have shown the rest of us the importance of this expensive lesson.

Thanks again for posting and may your repair now proceed with ease and success.

Tom

[Jim Saraceno]

One expensive lesson learned was always check all dimensions using a ruler, calipers micrometers etc. against all other things considered.

As a construction worker I always heard "Measure twice, cut once" but I usually said "I've cut it off three times and it's still too short"!

Keep us posted, this is an interesting problem here. Something just doesn't seem to be adding up.

[Guest P15-D24]

on the rods. If they are not the same you have a problem. You can get them from Hollanders, including those that can be safely interchanged.

[TodFitch]

Good practice is always check the casting numbers

on the rods. If they are not the same you have a problem. You can get them from Hollanders, including those that can be safely interchanged.

Rods are cast? I would have thought they would have been forged... Still a good idea to check the numbers.

[martybose]

My 230 had three different casting numbers on the rods when we took it apart, but with .060" over pistons in it, it had definitely been apart a time or two.

Just as an aside, any chance that your motor is a 230 and the mystery rod is a 218? They did shorten the rods when they lengthened the stroke .....

Marty

[Jim Yergin]

on the rods. If they are not the same you have a problem. You can get them from Hollanders, including those that can be safely interchanged.

GTK, can you tell me what problems I would have? Thanks.

Jim Yergin

Just as an aside, any chance that your motor is a 230 and the mystery rod is a 218? They did shorten the rods when they lengthened the stroke .....

Marty

Marty,

That may be entirely possible. I have a 230 crank and at least five 230 rods. It sure would explain the difference.

Thanks.

Jim Yergin

[Don Coatney]

Jim;

I believe I have 5 218 rods if you need them. And the sixth rod of this set went to Tim Adams. He most likely still has it.

[Plymouthy Adams]

I do have it yet...and need the 5...lol

I think his engine is 230 cubes and as pointed out the problem he could very well be facing is that they sent him a 218 rod instead of the shorter 230 rod..

[Jim Yergin]

Jim;

I believe I have 5 218 rods if you need them. And the sixth rod of this set went to Tim Adams. He most likely still has it.

I do have it yet...and need the 5...lol

I think his engine is 230 cubes and as pointed out the problem he could very well be facing is that they sent him a 218 rod instead of the shorter 230 rod..

Don,

Thank you very much for the offer. Tim is correct, I have a 230 crank and rods.

Jim Yergin

[Jim Yergin]

I likely have a 230 rod or 5. i know I sent one to Cali-for-ni-a a while back, but pretty sure I still have 5.

I can check the #'s on them. Yours if you want one. Let me know if you need the odd, or even.

Sorry, I can not get an accurate enough weight to tell you if it is within 50 grams of the weight of yours:eek:

Shel,

Thank you for your offer. I have one on order from Len Dawson. If that does not work out I will get back to you. As in the past, your generosity is greatly appreciated.

Jim Yergin

[Jim Yergin]

Today I installed the NOS 230 connecting rod I ordered from Len Dawson. I can now rotate the engine without any interference. The rod from Len was a fraction of an inch shorter than the VPW replacement rod. Still have to finish putting everything back together before trying to start it up but at least I am making progress.

Jim Yergin

[Planate Cranium]

My 230 had three different casting numbers on the rods when we took it apart, but with .060" over pistons in it, it had definitely been apart a time or two.

Just as an aside, any chance that your motor is a 230 and the mystery rod is a 218? They did shorten the rods when they lengthened the stroke .....

Marty

Marty,

I ran accross your post today while searching for some information on my 230. The engine has been rebuilt prior and I have measured the piston diameter at 3.259", but the pistons do not have any oversize indication on them (i.e. - .030, .040, etc). I bought a set of + .030 rings for a 218, as the cylinder diameters are the same for the 218 and 230, but when I sunk the rings down and measured the gap I got .040"! I believe the oversized 230 aluminum pistons measure different than the oversized 218 cast iron pistons. I was wondering if you had the measurements from your .030 oversized aluminum cam ground pistons so that I could cross reference. Let me know. Thanks.