"Short block" or "Long block" 230?

[Uncle-Pekka]

Hi Folks,

Th other day I had some correspondence with Rockwood, he asked do I have 25" or 23" block in my D24. Funny, but I could not answer. I have not touched the engine itself, but pullet oil pan for cleaning only. Have had no reason, because it is working well. Therefore I actually have not either paid much attention, which design it is. By the numbers it is most likely the original installed 230.

While I tried to understand the 23"/25" block question, I found the following posting in Allpar forum:

"The Plymouths and common Dodges used the 23"

engine that stopped growing at 230 cubes.

After WWII the De Soto's had 236 Cubes and the

same era Chrysler's had 251 Cubes. In a

couple of years the De Soto became 251 Cubes

and the Chrysler version became 265 Cubes.

Some where in this story the larger Dodge

Trucks and the Farm Hay Bailer's started

using the 25" engine.

The "Hot Rodder's" also learned a 25" block

could be bolted to the Dodge Transmission

for some instant cubes, and torque.

When one see's the SpitFire on any vehicle

other than a Chrysler, this means a "trans-

plant" has happened. All this name means is

a marketing ploy. The compression and all

is the same after WWII until starting about

1952'ish.

The De Soto Piston Part Number for a 1947

236 cubed "S-11" engine is the same as a

1949 Chrysler 251 cubed engine.

And they used the same M-6 Transmission."

Do I understand correct, that all '46-'48 US made Ply's & Dodges were originally "short block" 23" engines?

You are supposed to find the "long block" only in a DeSoto or C.Windsor from that three yrs era?

Further, no use looking for "Spitfire"-logo head or canadian made exhaust manifolds, because they are for the 25" engines only...?

[Plymouthy Adams]

you pretty much got that worked out..

[David Strieb]

I think candian built 230cu in engines had the longer 25" block.

[Frank Elder]

Also 218's canadian Dave, 25 inches.

[RobertKB]

All Canadian engines from 1938 and up were the long block 25" inch engine and varied in displacement from 201 CID to 265 CID. Sure makes finding an engine easy up here.

[55 Fargo]

I think candian built 230cu in engines had the longer 25" block.

Excwpt is was actually a 228, Canada made also made a 201,218,228,237,251,265, and maybe othersI am not aware of.

All the same 25 inch block, different cranks,pistons,ords, to accomplish the displacement differences. Some engines had larger intake valves too....

[Flatie46]

Hmmm, so the American version of the 230 is a 23'' block and the Canadian version of the 230 is 25'' block. Wonder what the reason for this was? Thicker block for the colder Canadian winters maybe?

[mackster]

Hmmm, so the American version of the 230 is a 23'' block and the Canadian version of the 230 is 25'' block. Wonder what the reason for this was? Thicker block for the colder Canadian winters maybe?

it was just easier...25 inch block for any application up there...

Pekka you got it figure out....

[RobertKB]

Reason there is only one size block for the Canadian market is that the market was just too small to produce two different engines so they chose the larger size and used it in all cars. This happened in 1938 when Chrysler Canada started building their own engines rather than import them from the US. That is what I heard and it certainly makes sense.

[Uncle-Pekka]

Pekka, all you need is a tape measure to answer that question:) (and maybe a inch to mm or cm conversion chart:D)

Well Shell, I must admit that it crossed my mind also to find it out that way.

The only problem, the car is now garaged 160miles away and I haven't been to there since Christmas. Thus I turned to library study.

Based on the study and Tim's comment on it, I am pretty confident, that I do have the short block on my Detroit made car. I will however measure the head in May when I get to the garage next time.

/Pekka

[Roadkingcoupe]

Hmmm, so the American version of the 230 is a 23'' block and the Canadian version of the 230 is 25'' block. Wonder what the reason for this was? Thicker block for the colder Canadian winters maybe?

I believe in 1938 the Windsor Ontario Canada Chrysler engine plant (across the river from Detroit) opened and after that day all Canadian vehicles received the 25" Windsor manufactured engines. Probably had something to do with trade or tariffs pre dating free trade, auto pacts and "content" rules.

Interesting to note:

- most of the frames have mounting holes for two locations of the radiator surround.

- the radiator on a 1939 US Plymouth car and a 1939 Plymouth Canadian car is the same but the mounting "flanges" were flipped rearward to force the rad to sit 1-1/2 to 2" forward to allow for clearance of the fan.

Edited April 16, 2010 by Roadkingcoupe
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