P15 Business Coupe Interio question

[Thomba48]

Hi,

having purchased my Business Coupe I immediately noticed (well wasn't really difficult) that the trunk had been extended (well, not really sure why) to the cost of the passenger space.

Now that I am undergoing an almost full restoration I have decided to put my beauty back into its old specs a) because it was ment to be :-) and because that way I would be able to add an additional "sitting space" for short journeys.

Has anybody got vintage or new pictures that could help me to understand how the business coupe actually should look like from behind the actual benchseats? How this addeed seat looks like, was attached? How far back the inside actually went? How this looks like from the trunk end? etc.

Any references, pictures, drawings, dimension information would be more than welcomed.

All the best, Thom

[martybose]

From your description I'd say that you have a trunk that is exactly where a Business coupe is supposed to be. If a restoration is your goal, it should stay exactly as it is. If you want a back seat you should sell the car and buy a coupe, which by the way has a different roofline and different rear and side windows.

If you move the trunk bulkhead you will have a one-of-a-kind not-quite a Business coupe that is not original at all.

Marty

[Thomba48]

Hi thanks Marty,

thanks for your response but I believe there is a minor misunderstanding.

What is for sure: The trunk has been expanded by quite a bit. So orginal it not!

And yes, I do know that this is not a Club Coupe. And even more, that is why I bought this car.

I believe to have seen - and that is very similar to the Dodge Business Coupe - that originally there was more space between the seat and the rear compartment. And I believe that there used to be a folding seat that was attached sideways.

Obviously Marty, I could be awfully wrong. But that is exactly why I am inquiring.

Again thanks for your support.

Thom

[hkestes41]

Thomba,

As Marty says the Business Coupe did not have a back seat from the factory. The trunk extension was there to allow a salesman to have a large trunk to carry his samples as he traveled from customer to customer.

The Club Coupe had the back seat but as was stated had a different roof line to allow headroom in the rear for the passengers. You will see in the pictures below the black car is a Club Coupe with a much longer roof, shorter trunk lid and larger rear side windows which roll down. The blue car is a Business Coupe like yours with shorter roof, longer trunk lid and smaller stationary rear side windows.

My first 48 Plymouth was a Business Coupe and I wish my current Club Coupe was a Business Coupe. If it were me I would not try to add a back seat.

Edited April 3, 2010 by hkestes41

[Thomba48]

Hi,

thanks again - so the issue of having a folding seat attached to the sides is a myth? :-)

Again: I am not referring to adding a bench. There isn't enought space for that. (Your picture are of course the perfect prove for that). And I wouldn't like that anyway.

Thanks/ Thom

[greg g]

Business coupes were a single front bench seat from the late 30's through the end of the line in 56. I have seen several that have had their trunks modified and rear seating installed, all but one looked like cobb jobs. If you really need the seating, it your car, your decision.

I have seen a couple business coupes with a fold down seat ond the side, can;t remember the year. The trunk extesion from the factory changed over the years so the room behind the main seat to the bulkhead changed also. In my 46, I have about 8 to 10 inches, some of the earlier 40's had about 2 feet. Some had a pass through door and some had the spare tired mounted to the bulkhead on the inside under and upholstered cover.

I think Rodney's 40 has the access door. My 46 does not. Maybe we should do a poll of bizzy coupe owners to see which cofiguratins are out there.

[1940plymouth]

On my '40 business coupe, there is an access door behind the front seat on the passenger side, then behind the driver's seat is where the spare tire is stored.

[Roadkingcoupe]

Business coupes were a single front bench seat from the late 30's through the end of the line in 56. I have seen several that have had their trunks modified and rear seating installed, all but one looked like cobb jobs.

Hi Greg hows it going. Remember looking at the blue CDN 1941 Plymouth bodied Dodge from the POC meet in Detroit? It was an A/S coupe.

To answer the original posters question. It goes like this.

There are Business man's coupes and Club coupes.

- Most BUT not all business mans coupes are front bench seats only. With fixed 1/4 (passenger) windows

-Most Club Coupes have a backseat. With roll down passenger windows.

However the wise men at Chrysler made a 1941 Plymouth/Canadian Dodge A/S Coupe or what is called an Auxiliary Seat Coupe. This model featured the rather attractive business coupe roof line and the trunk area was shortened to accommodate a folding bench back/seat bottom. This allowed the owner to choose how to use the space for cargo or passenger space. The seat bottom cleverly hid and folded away under the vertical seat back (which was hinged upwards). The passengers were seated in a forward facing position. A stroke of brilliance allows the seat bottoms to be operated individually so half the space would seat a passenger and the other half could still be used for cargo. Simple yet brilliant design. The easiest way to tell if your 41 was at one time an AUX cpe is the placement of the spare tire. As mentioned earlier the some business coupes had the spare tire mounted behind the drivers seat on the Aux. coupe the spare lies flat in the trunk in the rear pass. side corner. Photo attached (hopefully)

Edited April 3, 2010 by Roadkingcoupe

[Roadkingcoupe]

Hi,

thanks again - so the issue of having a folding seat attached to the sides is a myth? :-)

Again: I am not referring to adding a bench. There isn't enought space for that. (Your picture are of course the perfect prove for that). And I wouldn't like that anyway.

Thanks/ Thom

Hi Thom,

Just wanted to mention that my earlier posting proves the short roof line Businessman's coupe rear seat was no myth in 1941. The P15 really was based on the same body as P11/P12 minus the external running boards with improved "modern styling cues".

Which brings the discussion to which body style version do you like?

Businessman's Coupe vs. Club Coupe,

1941 vs.1946-1948

Last full year of pre-war construction...1941

or newer and improved version the post-war

1946-1948 P15 Plymouth.

[greg g]

Well there is a 42 Special Deluxe Business coupe hear abouts. So there was some 42 production.

[Roadkingcoupe]

Well there is a 42 Special Deluxe Business coupe hear abouts. So there was some 42 production.

I am unaware of a 1942 A/S Coupe. Probably made them but 42's are rare. It seems there are more parts then cars for a 1942 model year.

Slightly off topic, I do have an NOS military version of the 1941 Plymouth center grill medallion. It is army green and lacks the bright chrome plating and beautiful cloisone details. Looks like they were building military/blackout 41's before the well known black out vehicles of 1942.

[Plymouthy Adams]

as I understand it, the business coupe roof, quarter window and seats ar model specific through the 52 models..in 53/54 the business man coupe could readily be retrofitted with a back seat..there is absoluetly no room in either my Plymouth or Dodge business coupe for a rear seat..not even a half way jump seat..not saying that Thomba could not cut our the inner frame work that makes the exnted truk..but the roof line wil cut back short and fast there..any seat would have to be like a Camaro style where the rear passenger will sit butt cheeks almost on the floor..no leg room..now kiddies could be comfortable back thee but I would not enterain sticking an adult there..

[B-Watson]

The 1946-48 P15 Business Coupe was based on the business coupe first introduced in 1940. The body was reskinned for 1942 with rounder side sheet metal.

The Plymouth Club Coupe with its longer greenhouse, shorter trunk and full rear seat was first introduced for 1942.

In 1940 and 1941, with no rumble seat coupe nor club coupe, Plymouth offered an A/S coupe - business coupe but with fold up seats in the area behind the front seat.

All 1946 to 1948 Plymouth coupes are five window coupes with quarter windows behind the front doors.

The 1940 Chrysler, DeSoto and big Dodge shared bodies with Plymouth and thus offered a five window business coupe and an A/S coupe based on the same body.

For 1941, C, S and D received a completely new and larger body with the business coupe having only a front seat and a very long trunk. And they were of the three-window design, as were the 1959-52 Wayfarer and DeLuxe/Concord business coupes. The new 1941 body also had a 6-passenger, five windos club coupe with a full back seat.

In 1953 and 1954, Plymouth offered a business coupe which was the club coupe minus the rear seat. The 1955 to 1959 Plymouth business sedans were two door sedans minus the rear seats and stationary quarter windows.

And what coupes Plymouth offered, the Canadian Plymouth-based Dodge as well as the export Dodge and DeSoto also offered.

Bill

Vancouver, BC

[martybose]

My 47 is just like Greg G describes, 8-10 inches. I just have enough room to put in a couple of ammo cans for extra storage (along with the fire extinguisher that is mounted in the center of the bulkhead!).

Marty

[Roadkingcoupe]

The 1946-48 P15 Business Coupe was based on the business coupe first introduced in 1940. The body was reskinned for 1942 with rounder side sheet metal.

The Plymouth Club Coupe with its longer greenhouse, shorter trunk and full rear seat was first introduced for 1942.

In 1940 and 1941, with no rumble seat coupe nor club coupe, Plymouth offered an A/S coupe - business coupe but with fold up seats in the area behind the front seat.

All 1946 to 1948 Plymouth coupes are five window coupes with quarter windows behind the front doors.

The 1940 Chrysler, DeSoto and big Dodge shared bodies with Plymouth and thus offered a five window business coupe and an A/S coupe based on the same body.

For 1941, C, S and D received a completely new and larger body with the business coupe having only a front seat and a very long trunk. And they were of the three-window design, as were the 1959-52 Wayfarer and DeLuxe/Concord business coupes. The new 1941 body also had a 6-passenger, five windos club coupe with a full back seat.

In 1953 and 1954, Plymouth offered a business coupe which was the club coupe minus the rear seat. The 1955 to 1959 Plymouth business sedans were two door sedans minus the rear seats and stationary quarter windows.

And what coupes Plymouth offered, the Canadian Plymouth-based Dodge as well as the export Dodge and DeSoto also offered.

Bill

Vancouver, BC

Hi Bill,

I really enjoyed your post. Excellent info, clear and precise. Keep on posting!

[Frank Blackstone]

In high school my buddy had a 50 Dodge bussy that he needed extra seats to carry 4 of us. He made wooden back to back jump seats with shared back facing outward. Worked for us 16 year old slim waist boys. Not so well now that we are older. Well fed Frank

[Plymouthy Adams]

older, wiser got his own car Frank...!!!

[BobT-47P15]

I think some previous owner made a back seat for the 1950 Wayfarer

convertible I once had. Looked right at home.

I think Thom is thinking of "jump seats" or "opera seats" that fold down

from the sides. I've never seen them in a biz coupe.

this Cadillac convertible coupe had jump seats......if you look closely you can see it folds into the side panel,

with a chrome leg that comes down when opened..

Edited April 4, 2010 by BobT-47P15

[Thomba48]

Hi,

it is really tremendous what one can gather within such a short period of time.

OK - I now understand - the folding sideways seat is a myth and I shall leave my business coupe as it is.

Thom

[Thomba48]

Thanks,

yes I was thinking about a jump seat.

Thom

[Andydodge]

Thomba.......just to confuse you even more.......lol......heres a couple of pics of my 1941 Plymouth P11 ASC(Auxillary Seat Coupe)Coupe......it uses the same body shell as all Plymouth "business" coupe body shells BUT NOT the longer rear body shell of the 42-48 Club Coupes. The ASC meant that it has the normal front seat with a single seat back that lifts up from the bottom edge until its level with the top of the front seat........whilst holding it up you then fold the hinged seat bottom into the area behind the seat back, the metal spike that the seat base used to hold it off the floor is also hinged and folds up automatically......you then grab the seat on the other side and do the same again, with both seats folded up into the vertical boot partition you then gently lower the rear seat back, back down and it just sits there....BUT you now have a large carpeted area for more luggage.......The seats when folded out only offer very occaisonal seating(auxillary seating) , ideally for children up to about 10-12yrs as the seats sit very low to the floor, an adult would find the two seats very uncomfortable after a short while..........have attached a couple of pics, will have to get some with the seats folded up but you can see the split in the seat bottom indicating the 2 separate seats..........my understanding was that this option was deleted once the longer Club Coupe was intorduced as it had a "proper" rear seat...........My car is a factory RHD car built in Sth Africa and apparently quite uncommon with the ASC option.