It Cranks

[JerseyHarold]

Sounds right to me. Have you checked to see that the points are opening and closing?One more thing (long shot time)... I'm pretty sure the coil is grounded through the case. Maybe the freshly painted clamp and engine accessories are preventing the case from grounding. If you have a screw-type hose clamp, you can strip an inch or so of insulation from a piece of wire, clamp it to the coil case, and ground the other end of the wire to a good ground. Like I said, pure long shot.

[martybose]

I just re-read the whole thread, and noticed something I missed. If there is oil coming up into the bypass filter then there has to be pressure in the block, because the oil pressure valve keeps the feed to the bypass closed until there is enough pressure to lift the valve off of the seat.

Marty

[Joe Flanagan]

Harold I was just on the phone with a friend and he suggested seeing whether the points have been getting any current. Says this should be visible. Is that the same thing as checking to see whether they've been opening and closing? I'll check the grounding issue. I do have a piece of cork gasket sandwiched between the bottom of the coil and the clamp because the new coil is skinnier than the original was and won't stay in the clamp.

Here's another long shot: This coil is full of fluid. You can feel it sloshing around when you shake it. Don't know if that means anything, but there it is.

[Joe Flanagan]

I just re-read the whole thread, and noticed something I missed. If there is oil coming up into the bypass filter then there has to be pressure in the block, because the oil pressure valve keeps the feed to the bypass closed until there is enough pressure to lift the valve off of the seat.

Marty

You know, that's what I was thinking because I was going through that part of the manual. I just wasn't sure if I was understanding it right. I hope that's the case.

[Joe Flanagan]

I just re-read that section and it looks like the relief valve allows oil to come back to the block from the filter. I think oil goes to the filter unobstructed but it can't come back until the relief valve opens.

I don't know. It's a slippery subject.

[_shel_ny]

I just re-read that section and it looks like the relief valve allows oil to come back to the block from the filter. I think oil goes to the filter unobstructed but it can't come back until the relief valve opens.

I don't know. It's a slippery subject.

Joe, you are correct. The oil goes to the filter unobstructed.

Drains from the filter canister only when there is enough pressure to move the plunger and allow it to drain.

EDIT: pic shows flow with plunger pushed to allow flow out of filter canister

Edited February 28, 2010 by shel_bizzy_48

[JIPJOBXX]

Joe I think you should back up and take a brake.

1. Issue weather your coil is working or not?

A. Take your distributor cap oft and place it aside.

B. Turn on ignition key and touch point arm to ground

it. Use a screw driver to do this and if you have a

spark than your ignition key is working and you

should have juice to your coil also.

C. Now Joe take out the coil wire from the cap and hold

the coil wire just about a 1/4" or so from the your

engine block. Now go back to shorting out the

point. When you short out the point you should

get a nice spark from that coil wire. That spark

should happen every time you short out those points. Try not get to close to the end of the spark plug

wire as then you will be the ground and you will get

zap.

D. If you do not get spark at points than I would

suggest you make up a short wire to just run to

the coil input side. This should get you juice to

your points and then do the shorting of the points

again and the main coil wire grounding.

I wish I was at your side as I know where your at as I have been there befor. Jon

[_shel_ny]

Put the rotor back in, Joe:eek:

Been there, done that. Found it sitting on the battery.

[Don Coatney]

Close, Don. IFF - Inverse Flare Fitting.

There are pipe thread to IFF adapters and IFF to AN adapters if you don't feel like messing with the stock oil pressure hose.

Marty

You are correct Marty! Please continue to correct me when I am incorrect. Thanks!

[JerseyHarold]

If you take the cap off the distributor, and have 6 volts going to the coil as discussed previously, you should get spark at the points when you pull the breaker arm away from its contact. I'd use a wooden popsicle stick or similar item so you don't get shocked (although it's only 6 volts on that circuit). If you see a spark, this tells you the primary coil circuit is intact. Next step is crank the engine and see that the points open when the high point on the distributor cam (hex-shaped area of distributor shaft that the rubbing block rides on) passes the rubbing block of the points. If the points open, measure how far they open with a feeler guage when one of the six corners of the dist. cam is holding them open. Should be approx. .017" IIRC. If this is all good, do as Jon suggested and check for spark on the high-voltage wire going into the center of the dist cap. Again, be careful and don't get zapped...high-side voltage is >20,000 V, but very little current. Not fun if it happens.

Re: getting gas: Do as Shel suggested and rig up an IV going to the inlet side of the fuel pump. Worry about the tank and line another time. Another thought: You may have a non-vented gas cap and the fuel pump can't pull gas because of it. Remove gas cap and try cranking with it off.

I can tell you this from personal experience: Once that engine fires, you will experience a euphoric feeling better than _______________________ (fill in the blank with whatever turns you on).

Harold

[martybose]

I just re-read that section and it looks like the relief valve allows oil to come back to the block from the filter. I think oil goes to the filter unobstructed but it can't come back until the relief valve opens.

I don't know. It's a slippery subject.

My bad; I was working from memory, and had it backwards. Next time I'll check my manuals first!

Marty

[Joe Flanagan]

Marty, you got my hopes up!

[Joe Flanagan]

Thank you very much, all. I really appreciate all the advice. Jon, I wish you were here too. It sure is easier when you have someone around who knows a little something about these old cars. I will go through these things tomorrow and see what I come up with. I don't know if I mentioned this earlier, but the negative side of the coil is hot. I checked that with my volt meter. So I know I have current getting that far. When I took the center wire off the distributor, held it a quarter inch away from the block and cranked the engine, there was no spark at all. Just for the fun of it, I checked the resistance on both circuits on the coil. Can't remember which test is for which circuit, but when I put the probes on the two terminals, I got a little over 2. When I put one probe in the socket where the coil wire goes and the other on one of the terminals, I get "I," which I think means, "infinity," which I think means an open circuit. I was just wondering of that info says something definitive either way.

[JerseyHarold]

The ignition coil is an electrical transformer and there is no direct connection between the low voltage and high voltage sides, so a reading of infinity (open circuit) is correct. It is filled with oil so that's the sloshing you hear, but I can't remember ever hearing a coil slosh so yours may have an issue.

[martybose]

Marty, you got my hopes up!

Yeah, sorry. On the other hand, the fact that you are getting oil into the filter still makes me think that the pump is primed and working. It also implies that the crossover tube is installed, which was my next thought.

Unfortunately, my next thought is not a good one. I believe there should be a plug at the front of the block adjacent to the cam gear at the front end of the oil passage. If that was missing the oil would just flow into the timing chain cover and drain back into the pan. I can't think of a way to check that other than pulling off the timing cover. naturally, I can't find a picture in any of my manuals to confirm this, but there has to be a plug there to be installed after the passage was drilled.

Anyone have any better ideas?

Marty

[Joe Flanagan]

I know there is a plug on the right side, just outside the timing chain cover. It's the front end of the oil galley. That is in place. I think I have some photos of my rebuild where the area you're talking about might be visible.

[JIPJOBXX]

Yea do that thing with the coil I mentioned about at least that way you will know if your coil is working or not?

[_shel_ny]

Do it in order.

Get your oil. You want it to stay running. You won't like what you hear if you have no oil pressure:eek:

Get your spark. Don't need no stinkin' fuel if you got no spark:D

Get your fuel.

My understanding from a previous post on engine break in is when you get it to start you want to keep it running and get the rings seated.

[Joe Flanagan]

Yeah, Shel, that's what I needed to hear. Got to put a tent on this circus.

[Rodney Bullock]

The ignition coil is an electrical transformer and there is no direct connection between the low voltage and high voltage sides, so a reading of infinity (open circuit) is correct. It is filled with oil so that's the sloshing you hear, but I can't remember ever hearing a coil slosh so yours may have an issue.

In the old days of looking for nos coils. I would shake them to see if they were good. This is still done today. I always find a 6volt coil at the store because after a while they would fail. These cars when you are starting from scratch need new electrical componets. That way all this second guessing is eliminated. The switch don't work, the coil, the voltage regulator. If you have these things used it will drive you crazy. That oil gauge from Mr. Wolf looks like a good idea now don't it.

[ptwothree]

Checking for spark.... Hook up a timing light to the coil wire. hit the starter, pull the trigger, see if you get a flashing light. No? Disconnect primary wire at - terminal at coil. Hook up dwell meter. Set meter on dwell. Hit starter. Dwell meter should read 30 to 40 degrees dwell. If yes then coil is bad. If no reading, trouble is in the dizzy. Bad condenser or grounded points are most likely.

If you get a flash at the coil wire but the plug wires are dead..suspect a cracked cap or bad rotor.

Oil in the coil is there to cool it..may or may not slosh depending on how much oil is in it....I melted one along time ago....what a mess!

Checking for oil pressure has been covered all ready in other posts.

just my 2 sense..

[Joe Flanagan]

Rodney, all the electrical components are new. There is nothing original in the system. It was the temp gauge I was going to have redone by John Wolfe, but I got a good used one from Neil Riddle for much less.

[Rodney Bullock]

Rodney, all the electrical components are new. There is nothing original in the system. It was the temp gauge I was going to have redone by John Wolfe, but I got a good used one from Neil Riddle for much less.

I see, well let's start form the beginning. spark, fuel, compression.

[james curl]

Make sure you have the right rotor for your cap and distributor, Plymouth used three different distributors which use different rotors. some use a larger diameter cap, if you have a small rotor in it it will be too far away from the terminals to jump the spark. The larger diameter cap is also taller so the rotor is longer and taller.

[Young Ed]

Good point. If Joe has the stock distributor for his 49 its kind of an odd one. I believe his tuneup parts would be 49-50 only. It was kind of a transition period.