Horses?

[Young Ed]

I feel your pain there. My pickup has a starter pedal that pushes right on an arm on the starter. It will crank and crank even without the key. I've forgotten to turn the key on before and wondered why it wouldn't start!

[PatS....]

knowing that I don't have to disrupt the mysterious Fluid Drive mechanism to pull the motor makes me relax a bit. I feel almost superstitious about disrupting that beast!

The only difference between Fluid Drive and "normal" is instead of a flywheel, there is a fluid coupler unit that looks exactly like a torque converter.

The clutch is bolted to the fluid coupler, which bolts to the end of the crank with 8 bolts.

Some cars have an M6 Semi-Automatic instead of the standard 3 speed trans shown here.

No mystery to be concerned about. Actually very very simple.

[1just4don]

Is to lay DOWN and wrap the chain twice around the main frame and the 'hook' outside the car so it pulls even. THEN not having a 'jerk' jerk you silly with a loose chain. hard on chains too. More chains are broke from jerking than any other malady. Tighten slowly and gently,power into the pull. What NOT to do---Not take off for town,,,see what happens!! OR hook hook on bumper. Dont be scared to lay down on the ground,,,dry ground 'helps'

[PatS....]

We used to hook two old tires to the bumper horns of the old 49 Chrysler with Fluid Drive and PUSH it to start it. Had to be about 15 or 20 MPH. but it started that way every time, and no damage.

Never tried to pull it.

I DID use that 49 to pull start an IHC 3 ton delivery truck one morning in 1972 in Winnipeg. There were a few skeptics who didn't think it would move the 'binder much less pull it fast enough to start it, but it did.

[Merle Coggins]

I would think you'd have to pull pretty fast to get enough power transfered through the Fluid Drive to spin the engine. It might be like trying to pull start an automatic trans car/truck. There is no direct mechanical connection between the crankshaft and the transmission shaft. The oil within the fluid drive transmits power from the impeller (connected to the crank) to the turbine (becomes flywheel surface for clutch). It works on the same principle as if you set one fan facing another. If you turn one of the fans on, the other fan will also spin from the air flowing across it's blades.

Here's a cut-away drawing of the fluid drive assy.

Merle

[crosleykook]

This is all great advice and info- thanks again!

The engine is free. It turns over with the key (veery slowly)

So far:

Pulled plugs and put some marvel mystery down the holes. Let sit for 2 weeks.

Changed oil, installed new battery, new cables, new plugs. points/condenser seem ok. no start.

checked spark at all 6 plugs-- good. tried old plugs. still no start.

checked compression. mighty uneven/low/gone, so i think the suggestion about stuck valves may be correct, or rings are stuck.

poured 1 quart of ATF in cylinder holes, filler tube. turned engine over with coil wire off to spread ATF around. let sit again.

Drained again, pulled off carb, manifolds, etc. carb looked ok, manifolds had rust which i cleaned up a bit. Reassembled. still no start.

I still need to check compression again after soaking with the ATF. I'm hoping the trans fluid might have loosened up valves/rings. Also need to change points and condenser and will check distributor.

I'll pull the starter and see if it's fried and try some of the other hints. If I can't get it fired up soon I'll just yank the head and see EXACTLY what I'm dealing with.

This *should* run-- it was driven into the barn in '87 not because of problems, but because the car collector got a some new toys (he ended up with about 40 cars) to play with. it just sat there til a couple of years ago when I got it.

Also glad for the info on the Fluid drive. Since I don't need to be doing burnouts i think this setup will work well for me. Once i researched it i was fascinated by the whole idea that it works without friction... Not a good way to go for the drag strip, but a pretty neat idea for the street...

tim

[Lou Earle]

Sounds a lot like miss firing on exhaust stoke to me. Be sure it is firing on compression stroke. Timing is very critical on these engines even 3 degrees off and it is not going to fire.

Also try a 12 volt battery it will spin it fast enough to ocer come some stuck valves

[Dwight Pectol]

I have started my 48 dodge coupe, with fluid drive, by rolling it. I put it I 2nd gear and when I was rolling 8 mph I let out the clutch and it started right up. Now my car is in good running condition with a good battery and all . I just did it to see if it would start rolling and how fast I had to go. DW

[1just4don]

Instead of starting ether(which you can get too much of and lock it up) or gas(and flood it) try squirting WD-40 down the carb while the motor is spinning. LOTS ot things,specially small engines(like mowers and weed eaters etc.) fire easier ON WD-40 than gas,,,I guess its more flamable and it is lube bearing rather than washing. had lots of motors that wouldnt start except for the WD-40. After you get them running,,,they then run on gas. Doesnt say much for todays gas quality, does it?? And "fresh" gas too. It gets sour and goes bad quicker these days. If it pops on the WD-40 and gas doesnt work, try an aux. electric fuel pump and a can close by and see if your carb needle/float is holding right. BUT you have to spin it fast enough for ANYTHING to work. I vote for the 12v battery too,just for getting her runnin. I use to put a 12v on the hump inside (with hand jump cables run inside)when I absolutely had to get to work on cold mornings,outside parking lot,no plug ins. It spun it better than anything else. My blacksmith says starting motors is the ONLY thing WD-40 is GOOD for!!!

[greg g]

The best way to deal with stuck valves it to pull the head. Then you can see which are sticking. Stuck vavles are a common problem for these engines that have sat for a while. I could get mine started after sitting from 79 to 2001 by pulling it with a chain and it would run on three cylinders, then 4 after getting some heat in it. But the other two cylinders had valves that wouldn't loosen. I pulled the head and witha rubber mallet, played wach a mole while and assistant cranked the starter. Once freed up in this manner the problem never re asserted itself. Also double check your firing order on the distributor cap. When I installed my rebuilt engine, it would pop but not start. finally I noticed the wires were correct onthe plugs but one tower off on the cap. Good luck getting it going, these old things will start an run well with all kinds of mechanical woes, like low compression, broken top rings, vacuum leaks and all.

[Guest Gerhard Tieseler]

Once in awhile, if I roll up to the house at night and shut the engine off to be quiet, I can feel the engine drag through the fluid drive almost all the way to a stop, and sometimes it will diesel a bit. You gotta be able to push start a fluid drive!

[M. Cross]

Mark;

Where did you disappear to? You owe us all an explainin:confused:

Lazy....Dad passed away last month, so I've been tied up with related family matters....the old Locomotive wouldn't start after Thanksgiving from a locked up starter...take your pick. I have no definite excuse.

Oh, oh a lark, I decided to see if the car would try and turn over a couple weeks ago after cleaning off a good covering of black bird droppings (don't you hate those things this time of year Don! ), and lo and behold, the old bugger cranked right up!!

All I can figure is the starting gear locked up last November, and as we went through the warm and cold spells, it slowly back out of the flywheel on it's own. It's been starting perfectly ever since. Getting to drive it every day again made me take a peek in here....and I find you out riding a horse.

Times do change.

I also see I'm now a 'junior member, just joined'. See, you CAN turn back the clock!!! (grins)

HIGH regards! Mark