Carbon Clean-up Of Engine??

[55 Fargo]

Hi all was at the local General Store out here yesterday.

The owner is a bit of an old time mechanic, was listening to my engine, it runs pretty decent, ahs a slight piff-piff sound at an ilde, but I do have a Smithy muffler. It runs well never hesitates on accleration, has decent power.

He tells me I should pull the head and clean up all tthe carbon, as we all know Flat Heads wbuild up carbon, I told him I would not be pulling the head unless I have a reason, such as blown head gasket, engine rebuild, maybe to shave the head.

Have any of you guys done this surgery of removing the head just to de-carbon, we a have 1 member who has just discovered a bad piston by opening up his engine.

I wonder how well his engine was running prior to him pulling the head, for the shave job he is intending to do.

BTW, if I shave the head.050, what should I expect for an increase in power/performance/HP......Thanx Fred

Edited August 24, 2009 by Rockwood

[Don Coatney]

Fred;

Try this. Warm your engine to full operating temperature. Remove the air cleaner and using a spray mist bottle shoot a few squirts of plain water down the carburetor while the engine is at mid range RPM's (1500-2000). This will steam clean your combustion chambers. You may need to clean your spark plugs after doing this. I have done this to my engine a time or two with good results.

You could also use sea foam but why spend the money when water will work.

I have posted a chart for increased compresion by milling the head several times and I am sure you have seen it.

[55 Fargo]

Fred;

Try this. Warm your engine to full operating temperature. Remove the air cleaner and using a spray mist bottle shoot a few squirts of plain water down the carburetor while the engine is at mid range RPM's (1500-2000). This will steam clean your combustion chambers. You may need to clean your spark plugs after doing this. I have done this to my engine a time or two with good results.

You could also use sea foam but why spend the money when water will work.

I have posted a chart for increased compresion by milling the head several times and I am sure you have seen it.

Thanx Don, forgot about the head milling chart and the resulting compression changes, will look it up.....Fred

[claybill]

i would guess you would be at 7.5 to 1 up from 6.5

bill

[55 Fargo]

Thanx Bill, not sure what the 1 to 1 would equate to HP, but it should be noticeable....Fred

[Alexander]

The following calculator can tell you howm much horse power you would gain from milling the head

http://www.camaroz28.com/calcs/index.shtml#

hope this helps

Alex

[Shifticus]

That was my engine you were speaking about. To answer your question about how it ran, well, it ran fine. Decent power, acceleration without any misses or hiccups, and didn't lose or consume much oil. At idle, however, it had the occasional "piff piff" sound that you mention. I wanted to shave the head for more power.

plenty of carbon..

[55 Fargo]

As my engine is running decently with good oil pressure, decent compression will not open her up, unless I have to.

I have another engine a 251 I would like to rebuild somtime in the future to swap.

i do not want the same surprise you have, not saying I necessarily would , but it's possible.

The piff-piff ,sound at idle could be sticking or burnt valves at idle I suppose......Fred

[YukonJack]

That was my engine you were speaking about. To answer your question about how it ran, well, it ran fine. Decent power, acceleration without any misses or hiccups, and didn't lose or consume much oil. At idle, however, it had the occasional "piff piff" sound that you mention. I wanted to shave the head for more power.

plenty of carbon..

I was thinking about pulling my head off to check cylinder wear but after seeing all the badly worn pistons I'm scared. Think I'll leave it alone for now. Has anyone taken one apart that didn't have damaged pistons? This seems pretty common.

[Young Ed]

Yes I've seen a few. We have one that had 1 bad piston when bought. Put new bearings in and a used piston from another 6. Still runs great years later.

[realgonekatt]

Just pulled my head and found burnt valves on #3 & #4, same combustion chambers (deck) were pitted and terrible. Lucky that this isnt my "prize" motor so I just stuck some used valves in her and put the head back on. Then I dropped the oil pan, That was the scary part, sludge like ive never seen. Made me sad that this thing had been run in such condition for so long. A real testament to just how tough these old L heads are. I also have a spare mill and plan on building it while this old dog beats around town. With a little attention I think shell last through the season anyway:rolleyes:

[55 Fargo]

I have 2 flatties here with the head puilled off each of them.

No signs of a broken piston on either of them.

I also have a another flattie in decent running shape, with a granny 4 spd, it is mounted on a 1955 Fargo 1/2 ton frame, complete witha lat model Mopar diff, and newer front end components. I need a body to put on this frame, maybe someday, it has a 228 engine.

My engine in my 47 runs just fine except fot he bit of piff-piff noise at an idle, this is coming from the tail pipe. This engine starts easy and runs very well, has decent power too. I am not pulling the head, unless I have a reason now, will drive as it is for ????, then will dcide, it go last for years as is, with only a few thousand miles going on her each season.

So Yukon Jack, just because Shifitcus had a broken piston, doens' t mean you have, if you really want to open Pandoras box then do it, you can then correct what needs correcting, maybe just clean-up, and milling the head might be the only thing.

Good Luck Fred

[46Ply]

Found this old post while searching for solution to the 'occasional piff-piff" sound as described earlier here.

The car runs great on the road, but seems to miss a little on idle.  I pulled all the plugs, checked the gap and reset 2 or 3 to .025, which seemed to be a little wide before.  They look fine, with no carbon buildup.

This post suggests that I might have a valve sticking?  Haven't tried the water mist in the carb yet.

 

Looking for solutions.  (P15 - 217 cu. in.)

[55 Fargo]

Found this old post while searching for solution to the 'occasional piff-piff" sound as described earlier here.

The car runs great on the road, but seems to miss a little on idle.  I pulled all the plugs, checked the gap and reset 2 or 3 to .025, which seemed to be a little wide before.  They look fine, with no carbon buildup.

This post suggests that I might have a valve sticking?  Haven't tried the water mist in the carb yet.

 

Looking for solutions.  (P15 - 217 cu. in.)

Funny I was thinking about this today too. I pulled the Fargo out, let her warm up before going for a drive. Now it is cold here today, so could watch the exhaust going pu-puff every once in a while, while idling cold.

No doubt some valve and seat issues, but nothing that bad, older engine.

I have tried the water and the Seafoam down the carb, still idles the same way.

The best remedy in my case would be a valve job or a rebuild.

Think I have a rebuilt 265 in the wings, so would be going in next..

[Labrauer]

In the old days I remember my dad and my uncles that worked for Chrysler corporation as a mechanic used to use transmission fluid to get rid of carbon build up. They would take the breather off and have the car running and warmed up pull the throttle out so the engine would run around 1500 to 2000 RPM then gradually pure the fluid down the carburetor. The car would start to smoke from the exhaust a little then they would keep pouring in the fluid a little faster until the car's engine died. Let the car sit a couple hours and fire that baby back up. The smoke would bellow out the exhaust until all burned in the chamber and around the valves. After about 1/2 hour of smoking it would clear up and the carbon was gone and no more pings from the build up. I have done this to my 48 P15 a number of times with great results also.

[55 Fargo]

In the old days I remember my dad and my uncles that worked for Chrysler corporation as a mechanic used to use transmission fluid to get rid of carbon build up. They would take the breather off and have the car running and warmed up pull the throttle out so the engine would run around 1500 to 2000 RPM then gradually pure the fluid down the carburetor. The car would start to smoke from the exhaust a little then they would keep pouring in the fluid a little faster until the car's engine died. Let the car sit a couple hours and fire that baby back up. The smoke would bellow out the exhaust until all burned in the chamber and around the valves. After about 1/2 hour of smoking it would clear up and the carbon was gone and no more pings from the build up. I have done this to my 48 P15 a number of times with great results also.

Well it puts on a great show. Any engine that is carboned right up bad, needs the head removed forma thorough cleaning job....

[46Ply]

Dumb question time.

 If you remove the head can you resolve sticky valves problems?

          ie: If valves are sticking is it because of carbon buildup at the seats only?  

 

Or, is there potentially a problem around the stems, or further down?

[Merle Coggins]

Valves usually stick in the valve guide, but removing the head will allow you to get some solvent down onto the stem and give access to gently tap them down.

[46Ply]

Valves usually stick in the valve guide, but removing the head will allow you to get some solvent down onto the stem and give access to gently tap them down.

Thanks Merle,  That's what I was looking for.