Pipewrench_Dale Posted March 9, 2009 Report Posted March 9, 2009 Hi. I own a 1940 DeSoto Business Coupe. Im trying to figure out wich flathead I have. The engine has been changed a long time ago and my main problem is that the serialnumber on the block is missing. Looks like it been filed of. I have measured the engine and its the longer block. When you look at the engine its also clear that its been put together by parts from many different engines. Is there any visible markers except the serial that can point out wich engineblock I have? Quote
claybill Posted March 9, 2009 Report Posted March 9, 2009 does it say 'spirfire' on the head? why do you think it has many odd components? ahve you checked the 'stroke', by removing the rear pipe plug in head and measuring stroke? things like that will help.. how does it run? ! bill Quote
BobT-47P15 Posted March 9, 2009 Report Posted March 9, 2009 Does the engine happen to have any large letter on the head, towards the rear? On Plymouths, there is a "P", on Dodges a "D". Don't know what a Chrysler or DeSoto have. If the serial numbers are filed off, then have you seen a tag somewhere in that area that would have been installed by an engine "remanufacturing" or rebuilding company?? Quote
Niel Hoback Posted March 9, 2009 Report Posted March 9, 2009 There should be a block casting date below the distributor hole. Quote
BobT-47P15 Posted March 9, 2009 Report Posted March 9, 2009 Here's what that date looks like on an engine, down below the distributor. Would be the date that block was made. May have to do some cleanup to read it. Quote
Reg Evans Posted March 9, 2009 Report Posted March 9, 2009 If it's a 53 long block it may be a 265 !!!! Measurure the stroke through the little access plug over #6 piston like Bob suggested. If it measures 4 3/4" it will be a 265. 4.5" stroke would be a 251. Oops, I thought Pipewrench Dale posted that photo. Quote
BobT-47P15 Posted March 9, 2009 Report Posted March 9, 2009 Reg......that '53 date is on a Plymouth engine I bought, that's now in the brown P15 coupe. More like a 230 perhaps, in this case. Quote
Ken Bartz Posted March 10, 2009 Report Posted March 10, 2009 There is a chart of casting numbers that was posted in this forum 8-22-2008 that had the casting numbers on engine parts. I looked back at this posting and the image is no longer available. Luckly I printed it out. It has proven to be very handy as I have refered to it frequently. If you were to give the casting numbers off of the block and head the identity could probably be given. Perhaps this chart could be put on the P15-D25 reference guide.? Quote
Don Coatney Posted March 10, 2009 Report Posted March 10, 2009 There is a chart of casting numbers that was posted in this forum 8-22-2008 that had the casting numbers on engine parts. I looked back at this posting and the image is no longer available. Luckly I printed it out. It has proven to be very handy as I have refered to it frequently. If you were to give the casting numbers off of the block and head the identity could probably be given. Perhaps this chart could be put on the P15-D25 reference guide.? Where is the chart? Quote
Ken Bartz Posted March 10, 2009 Report Posted March 10, 2009 This number cast in this head is 1311804 from BobT posting, it is a 230 head. Quote
Plymouthy Adams Posted March 10, 2009 Report Posted March 10, 2009 the same castings were used over the years and I have found them on 41 218 Dodge and later on later on 58 Dodge truck and also other year Plymouth's in between...further I have found that the head thickness is different on each model representative to the compression of the engine at time it was built..milling of the head was the change in compression ratio from the factory... Quote
Ken Bartz Posted March 10, 2009 Report Posted March 10, 2009 I'd post the chart but how do I insert an image into this massage? Cut and paste don't work. Quote
Ken Bartz Posted March 10, 2009 Report Posted March 10, 2009 I think I have figured out how to post a image here. So here goes....... You may want to save this for future reference................ Quote
Reg Evans Posted March 10, 2009 Report Posted March 10, 2009 Hey Thanks Ken. I have 4 engines and several heads on the garage floor now so I'm going to take the chart out there to see if the numbers agree with the engine numbers stamped on the blocks. Quote
BobT-47P15 Posted March 10, 2009 Report Posted March 10, 2009 The head in this picture (from the earlier post) is from a 1950 Dodge..... so I guess it would be a 230. That head is attached to a 1957 Plymouth engine.....don't know about the thickness part and it's effect on compression ratio. But it works OK.....has for several years. Quote
Pipewrench_Dale Posted March 10, 2009 Author Report Posted March 10, 2009 Thanks for the help. Ill check the engine next time Im in the garage. Now for some of your questions. It isnt a Spitfire. (I had a Chrysler Windsor DeLuxe 1951 a few years back wich was equipped with a Spitfire.) The DeSoto runs quite well. Its a bit hard to start when cold, but runs smothly when hot. Dont really know why its so hard to start. Usually It just requires a small puff of starter gas in the aircleaner and it starts right up. As its equipped with an overdrive there is no problem staying with the traffic most of the times. The reason why I think it has different parts is because some brackets dont seem to be original with the engine. My best guess is that the block is changed and some of the original DeSoto brackets has been reused. As you see 237 is painted on the hood. When I bought the car 4 years ago one of the valves was cracked and needed to be changed. A salesman in a partshop told me it was a 237. And since the new valves fitted I didnt ponder about it. But to my knowledge (nowdays) there isnt any 237 engines? Ill be back with the numbers I can find and a picture of the engine in a few days. Quote
Reg Evans Posted March 10, 2009 Report Posted March 10, 2009 Some 1.5 ton Dodge trucks had a 236.? long block in 46-47. Maybe it's one of those. Quote
Pipewrench_Dale Posted March 10, 2009 Author Report Posted March 10, 2009 Got some pictures Found a tag in a tricky place. Below the mainfold just beside the fuelpump. Nearly impossible to see from above. Had to take a picture to see it clearly. The head had quite few numbers on it but none with a letter in front all just numerical. Anyhow the engine is a 1954 Industrial Engine if I have understod it correctly. But still no clue if its a 250 or 265. Here are the pics... First is general picture of the engine Next is a number located just below the distributor. 06054 Next is two numbers is on the head 04275 and probably 1327830 (unsure its hard to see) Last one is the plate by the fuelpump. Model: 32-1545-1 Serial: 304849 So whats your thoughts? Quote
Pipewrench_Dale Posted March 10, 2009 Author Report Posted March 10, 2009 I didnt see those numbers until I saw the picture on my computer. Ill check the head closer tomorrow. But the location is drivers side far back on the head just by the throttlebracket. (The bolt to the right is the second from the back) Quote
greg g Posted March 11, 2009 Report Posted March 11, 2009 You might wan to call the Walter P chrysler museum in detroit and see if their reshearch dept can decode the number form the tag. As mentioned, you can measure theh stroke by inserting a piece of stiff wire through the hole the pipe plug will give you access to . the wire will ride the piston through its stroke allowing you to measure it. starting in 1942 Desoto engines (long blocks) were available in 236.6 cu hence 237. Glad you found this forum, I was the one who direced you here from the HAMB board. this one is more specific to MOPAR flatheads, hope you find the answers to your questions. Quote
Pipewrench_Dale Posted March 11, 2009 Author Report Posted March 11, 2009 Thanks for the tip about this website. Will sure come handy. Ill be measuring the stroke later on. Its hard to do any work on the car right now as its parked in a cramped space. But Ive contacted the Walther P Chrysler museum and sent them the pictures to see what they can find out. Quote
Pipewrench_Dale Posted March 11, 2009 Author Report Posted March 11, 2009 Not that I can help, but what are those numbers, and where The number is 2264126. Not sure about the last 6, could be an 8. Quote
Pipewrench_Dale Posted March 12, 2009 Author Report Posted March 12, 2009 Just found this page http://t137.com/registry/help/otherengines/indengines.php So far Ive identified the engine as an industrial type. Probably made in 1954. The engine has the modelnumber 32-1545-1 http://www430.pair.com/p15d24/mopar_forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=9675&d=1236718682 Im starting to think that the number 32 in my modelnumber actually is the same as the marking IND32 on the table on the page above. That would mean that the engine is an 265 Industrial Engine made in 1954. Quote
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