dpollo
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Everything posted by dpollo
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A Plymouth cable is a bit too short for the Chrysler, this is especially true when fitting a cable to the 49 and up, as the dash cluster must be tipped forward for access. Other makes of cars used similar cables and some that are meant for Ford of the same era will work and repos are available. I have never had a great deal of luck with universal repair kits where you cut the inner cable to length then crimp on the upper end. Usually when a cable breaks, there are issues with the outer sheath.
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Your car's circuit breaker is a self closing unit mounted behind the instruments between the ammeter and the headlight switch. Often when the headlights fail to light after a long idle period it is the dimmer switch which is at fault. If the dash and tail lights and park lights come on then you can be sure power is at the headlight switch. As mentioned above, check connections including grounds at the lights.
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Help Decoding Flathead 6 Engine on 40 Desoto
dpollo replied to 40desoto's topic in Technical Archives
on the Plymouth, the original engine number is stamped on the frame about a foot behind the left rear axle. This was intended to be a hidden number so clean the frame really well and use a powerful light. It is on the vertical face of the frame on the outside. Also there is a part number L for left side. The RHS has the same number prefaced by R. Engine prefixes generally used the engineering code as a prefix like P23. K L and M were used in Canada in 57 58 and 59. I would guess Desoto would be the same so look for a number prefixed with S. Many states and provinces used the engine number as primary ID. Kinda dumb in retrospect. -
I think I would do a compression check to rule out (or confirm) a leaky head gasket also look for oily residue in the radiator. Then check the vacuum to see if any leaks have developed in the intake or if the valves have decided to be sticky. If the vacuum gauge flutters, try pouring a bit of oil or a diesel/oil mix down the carb. Modern fuels do not provide much lubrication for valve stems. A bit of 2 stroke oil in the fuel often helps. maybe as much as a quart in 10 gallons at first.
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I saw an emergency brake setup relocated to the input flange of a differential. It was operated by a much longer cable and seemed to work all right but it would be vulnerable to dirt and road splash. There are some good suggestions following my last remarks with regard to adaptors and controls. I had a 54 Plymouth with Powerflite. It was ok but no ball of fire for performance. I have overdrive in my various cars and while gear shifting is still necessary, the use of the clutch pedal is reduced somewhat once you are rolling. The semi automatic from earlier Chryslers is too heavy to be practical in a Plymouth. An adapter for a 904 sounds good. I wonder what starter/ ring gear combination is needed.
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Here is the problem (actually there are several) Powerflites came only with the 230 engine in the USA. The crankshaft on a 52- 218 has only 4 holes, you need eight. Swap a 230 into your car and the powerflite and that problem is solved. Other engines in the Chrysler Desoto , Dodge and all Canadian production had eight hole crankshafts. Next is the control. 54 and 55 use a lever, column mounted in 54. easy to connect. 56 and up use a cable. not so good unless you want pushbutton control. Also needed is the throttle position sensor which would have to come from a 54. It is a mechanical link connected to the throttle linkage and is Very Important for proper operation of the transmission. The next issue is the transmission tunnel which needs to be a lot bigger. I think that an adaptor is made to adapt a GM Turbo 350 to the Plymouth 6 . I believe this would be a better way to go because they are lighter and more compact but then you need a park-brake setup in the rear. As you have already discovered, the rear mounts are different and the 57 to 59 setup front and rear are not the best choice for your car. Sorry to rain on your parade but a Slant-six with T-Flite would be easier all round and that has its challenges too. Been there Done that.
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How did you find it best to learn the Mopar Flatty?
dpollo replied to fedoragent's topic in P15-D24 Forum
Like many lessons, those learned in "The School of Hard Knocks" are the ones that are the most enduring. As a youngster, I had a 35 PJ which I drove on farm roads. It had poor oil pressure and a nasty knock. On January 25 ,1959, the inevitable happened. #2 rod bearing overlapped its shells and seized the engine tight ruining the crankshaft. I took the engine all apart but my father would not allow me to spend any money on it, (a used crankshaft was $15.) The car eventually was sold without the engine and I moved on with a 40 P10. This one P10c-1481 ran pretty well but popped head gaskets. It needed a resurface job on the head but again, no money. I traded it for a low mileage 50 Dodge D36 ( Canadian) and ran this car for 14 years , putting 120 000 miles over and above the original 56000. During this time I learned about re ringing, reboring, grinding valves and so on. I also learned what has already been stated here. Learn by doing, ask questions, observe recommendations found in the manual. A good rebuild on one of these engines will run for many years and if used with care and common sense will be as reliable as they were intended to be. They represent some very good engineering.... even if a bit outdated.... and speaking for myself, I never want to be without one. At present I have six cars and trucks powered by variants of this engine, shelves of service parts and a few complete spare units including my D36's engine ( which I got in 1965) so I am not likely to run out. -
Regardless of the holes, I would use the pump which shows the least wear.
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That particular hole lines up with a larger round hole in the block and is intended only to allow air to escape. Neither of the engines you mention require the pump with the internal bypass. This is a hole of about 5/8 dismeter near the top of the gasket surface which lines up with a hole in the block. This turns 90 degrees and goes up through the block to an extension on the cylinder head. (1951 and up except Spitfire) The bypass is a good feature but in practical terms, the cooling system works fine without it.
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Most, but not all wheels have two threaded holes on either side of the shaft which allow a "strong back " puller to be used. Care must be taken not to flare the top of the tube (shaft) so it is a good idea to replace the nut just enough to protect the threads. Wheels are on a taper, either with a keyway or with splines. They usually come off quite easily, unless they have been out in the wet for a long time. Wheels without threaded holes need a special puller which goes around the column jacket and allows force to be applied under the hub. A lot of trucks are like this, but as I recall, the 39 and 40 have the threaded holes.
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I certainly have the bell housing and possibly many of the other parts you need BUT shipping from Western Canada may be prohibitive. It should be quite easy to convert your truck to right hand steering as they were built that way for export. If you can get a 4 speed box from 53 or newer, they were synchronized in 2,3,and 4th gear and are a lot easier to drive. I installed one in a 46 One ton and needed to change only the clutch disc. I am the tech advisor for the Plymouth Owners Club for 1950 and my contact info can be obtained there should you need it.
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I have been very pleased with products, delivery and price of rubber products for both cars and trucks from Dodge City Truck Parts in Ontario. Not sure where his parts are made. Cowl vent for 51 Plymouth was a very good fit , same with headlight bucket gaskets and all the rubber for my 52 Fargo including the gas pedal is good especially windshield and rear glass seals. On line catalogue.
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I installed a passenger car overdrive in my 52 Fargo truck. A 3/4 inch-thick adapter plate machined to take the place of the input bearing retainer can be fastened to the front of the passenger car transmission. The throw-out bearing collar is then fastened to the adapter. The adapter is bolted to the front of the transmission This plate then bolts to the bell housing. It is necessary to grind the case and re drill one of the mounting holes. It is challenging but possible to make the column shifter work with a mixture of truck and passenger car pieces. The parking brake cable must be modified so as to operate the brake. A small portion of the frame crossmember must be trimmed and the driveshaft shortened seven inches. All in all it might be easier to install a 5 speed from an S 10 but then you need a parking brake which could involve a complete differential swap or relocation of the brake to the pinion shaft of the differential and operate with a longer cable. Both possible. It is easier to put an overdrive in a US built truck because the transmissions used were more like the passenger car. It is possible that the R 10 overdrive from a passenger car will fit this transmission. Only the internal parts from a BW overdrive can be used in the Chrysler . Main shaft and output shafts as well as the adaptor plate are different.
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Putting a 218 head on a 230 is a cheap and effective way to increase compression. You lose none of the breathing space so vitally needed. If you calculate the cylinder volume of a 230 and a 218 38.33 and 36.33 cubic inched per cylinder, then given that both engines started life with say 7:1 compression (1951) then the difference has to be made up in the volume of the chamber. Therefore, the 218 chamber must be smaller than the 230. Any overbore also has to be figured in. If you put a 230 head on a 218, you lower the compression ratio. My 50 Ply. with a 230 equipped with a 218 head and .040 overbore pumps up 150 lbs per cylinder. Stock was about 115.
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I have had a lot of these engines apart and have never seen one without a nozzle. I have a 59 engine on the bench now and it has the tube. The slinger, if used , goes between the front pulley hub and the crankshaft sprocket
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I put a 225 in a Canadian 50 Plymouth. The radiator was moved to the front of the yoke and I used a rear sump pan. The firewall needed some reworking. (big hammer) I shifted the T-Flite with the column shifter by reconfiguring the bottom lever so it curved up and over the column and pulled or pushed from the opposite side and connected to a bell crank mounted to the transmission. Used a Hydrive quadrant indicator with the gear positions added. It was a good swap, very reliable but not really a ball of fire for power. You will need some of your speed equipment. I found that a 3.23-1 rear axle ratio worked well. An accessory trans cooler was adequate . A friend (now deceased) chopped his 49 Chrysler club coupe 4 inches. Like yours, it looks great. Sorry, no pictures at present.
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Sure, it is possible to run the gauge on 12 volts but when you double the voltage, current through the same resistance goes up approximately 4 times. This may shorten the life of the gauge and the sender I recall that there is also a condenser on the back of the 48's fuel gauge maybe that is what went up in smoke. I have found that a light bulb about the size and wattage as a dash light or marker light makes a viable and cheap resistance tp limit the current in the gauge circuit. wire it between the ignition switch and the gauge. It can be a 12 volt bulb and will glow about half brightness. This works well on 49 and up, but I cannot be sure about 39-48
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Power loss Power gain : Usually power loss is so gradual it is not really noticed unless there are burned valves or low compression. Even a significant build up of carbon especially if the backs of the intake valves are coked up results in power loss. Power gain is always noticeable because all the settings are on spec and if a rebore has been done there is more displacement and a slight increase in the compression ratio due to the bigger bore and possibly the milling of the head. My first encounter with power gain was on a 40 Plymouth which popped the head gasket between 3 and 4 . It had been running well before this all happened. After a hard run I noticed white smoke from the exhaust. I removed the radiator cap. The coolant looked normal but all of a sudden the tide went out and even more suddenly my curiosity was rewarded by a face full of hot antifreeze. After the gasket change, the engine seemed to have a lot more power. Up to that point , since I had never had to add water, and the coolant was clean I do not think that compression was low due to gasket leakage.
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I put 123000 miles on my first 50 Dodge (D36) over and above the original 56000 and it was driven up to 20 000 miles each year. I put new rings in it at 70 000, rebored at 98 000 after a high speed run tore up the top rings. At 150 000 I rebored again and put a new crankshaft in it and ran the car up to 179 000 when the inevitable rust caught up to us. I still have the engine which was running perfectly at the time I scrapped the car. This car was driven very fast and hard. Over the years I have seen these engines totally worn out at 50 000 miles and others running well at 100 000. I knew a man who bought his D24 limousine new in 1948 and drove it 650 000 miles . (Commercially) Three engines, one overhaul on each. No crankshaft troubles at all. His secret, Clean oil. In all that time, and he was nearly 90 when he died, there was no collision damage to the car so we can assume he was a good driver but he never hesitated to take his car on long highway trips. Even today I do not hesitate to drive my cars . Anywhere. These engines were not fragile but failures certainly could occur through mistreatment. Ford V-8s and Chev sixes were no better. Each had (has) its limitations but all will give good service even today if treated with the respect they deserve. I have said before It was the duty of every young man of my generation to find the limitations in the cars his parents drove and we worked hard at it. Chev owners got pretty good at changing transmissions as I recall. Me, I preferred to keep driving in my Dodge. I put a 283 Chev in a 50 Plymouth and a slant six in another but neither car appealed to me as much as ones with an original drivetrain.
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I have run an Overdrive in most of my cars . Back in the 60s, I could reach an indicated 100 mph but you have to be able to steer and stop as well if you want to be around to boast about it. As a rough guide, multiply your indicated speed by 50 running in direct drive. This will give you approximate engine RPM e.g.. 60 (mph) X 50 = 3000 (rpm) The engine might turn 5000 rpm, but not for long. If you are using an engine like a 251 or a 230, the longer strokes make for excessive piston speed (measured in feet per mile) but remember, in the 50s and 60s, it was our duty as young citizens to find the weaknesses in the cars our parents drove.... and I worked hard at it. I think nicest engine for all round sweetness is the Canadian 218, 3 3/8 x 4 1/16, bored .060 to 3 7/16. Lots of torque and good top end. Mind you this is just my opinion . I have at this time cars with 201, 218 (both USA and Canadian) 230 and 251 and each has its merits. Overdrive in 3 of them with 3.9 rear screw. I can drive as fast as common sense dictates. 65 to 70 on a good highway but my 35 Ply does not really like 60+ because of tires (600 x i6) and steering limitations. Our Plymouths were never meant to be barn burning performers, but to be safe and reliable. A 50 Plymouth driven by Johnny Mantz won the first ever 500 mile race at Darlington SC with an average speed of 78 mph. Sure there were faster cars on the field but not as reliable as the Plymouth. My 51 convert. has a 251 bored .060 and 8.5 compression. It has run 50000 miles and recently completed a trip over several mountain passes with 100 degrees temp in the valleys. No oil consumption, no overheating and 20 mpg. avg speed maybe 55 mph with top at 65. Mostly in Overdrive. You gotta like it.