timkingsbury

ta dah... for now the Unauthorized Fast Fred thread ! Love the sound of that.. http://p15-d24.com/blog/17/entry-106-captain-fred-challenges-the-model-t-guys-httpp15-d24comuser1218-cptfred/ Tim

Love it Fred ... Lets tell those Ford guys AoK has guaranteed it has at least 1 HP more than a model T and the Chevy guys, at least 2 more HP than whatever babbet bearing, cast crank more they were making at the time your flathead rolled off the line.. lol And if you want, happy to also have a thread for your build.. lol and promise not to leak too many pictures.. Tim

Sadly the cam change that would improve that is counter productive to helping give you more performance in a flathead. Lack of octane level, and adding in ethanol is a recipe for bad performance. So there is 100 octane race fuel out there in California, but it is beyond stupid priced. I guess its another cost to live in California. Sorry

The issue he has is he is not 100% sure the head is original to the engine. He also knows the engine was rebuilt and so isn't 100% sure if the block was decked and the biggest one, being he isn't sure if the head has already been shaved. So you are correct. You can take the bore it is now, the stroke it is now, then the height to the top of the deck, the compressed height of the head gaskets and the cc's in the head now and calculate the compression ratio, but I think he was hoping that he could cc the head, be able to compare it to a stock number and know how much it has been shaved. That is where it gets complicated as there are a number of different head configurations that net different volumes (ccs) and even for the same head part number there is a range. Powerhouse is in California, home of hard to find higher octane fuel or fuel without ethanol and when your dealing with 91 octane fuel with ethanol as your readily available premium fuel then the compression ratio starts to become a little more important. Where I am, I can still buy non-ethanol gas all over the place and its easy to find 100-105 octane fuel in which case compression ratio isn't as important as valve clearance. For me, if the valves are not hitting the head, drive on drive on.

The 2 barrel is a red herring. Go get a dodge truck carter ball and ball from a big block 265 ci motor and you have more cfm. That being said you have 3 Siamese intake ports feeding 6 cylinders. You naturally are getting more fuel into the middle port feeding cylinders 3 and 4 and you have too much back pressure on the exhaust side on the exact same 2 cylinders that have the least amount of fuel going into them. The answer is easy. Get dual exhaust to let the overall breathing of the exhaust improve and balance the fuel going into each of the 3 intake ports with dual carbs. Chrysler knew it was the way to go and showed their hand with dual carbs and dual exhaust from the factory in 1952 on the 265 ci trucks. There are a few schools of thought on why you didn't see that translate to the cars later, but I truly believe raising the compression and the advent of the v8 and hemi took away the need for the dual carbs and dual exhaust in the six cyl flathead. In your case, freshen it up, bore it out as there is no replacement for displacement, shave the head, put on dual carbs and dual exhaust and cam and you will exceed the hp and torque of any 230 coming from the factory. Tim

No problem - Drive on Drive on..

Well, the truth is we likely should have had a pile of those bumper stickers made I guess and lol made slightly smaller because they don't fit in a standard mailing envelope. We do sell them, their $5 each & shipping. Or drop by Spring Carlisle or AoK HQ in Fertigs, PA or my place in Campbellville Ontario. Tim

While that could be put into a Plymouth, it came out of a Desoto or Chrysler. I would need to see a few more pictures. There is a date code cast into it and over on my blog you may be able to figure it out on the spotters guide thread. http://p15-d24.com/blog/17/entry-88-the-rough-field-spotters-guide-for-mopar-overdrives/ Tim

Well.. your 5.7 litre hemi depending on its year, has a rev limiter built into the system. When they 1st came out it was set at 5570, and I think its now something like 5800 depending on the application. You can chip that hemi, void the warranty and catch up with the RPM of the worlds fastest dinosaur. RPM is a funny thing and it depends what the application is. Top Fuel cars are a classic example where they have actually dialed back the rpm, as they shortened the racing from 1/4 mile and they start to talk about how many times the engine turns over the course of the race. In terms of the most powerful on the planet, I cant say that because I just don't know. I also know we could actually pull more power out of a flathead and God willing, down the road that may come to be. We have a special blower intake in prototype form, and we have only started to play with the food (fuel) that feeds the Raptor! lol In terms of my 1949, I also cant make that claim, although I have definitely not seen a more powerful one out on the street, nor has any of the AoK boys, although to be honest that was never our goal. It was more to take a flathead, make it streetable, and able to operator on "pump gas". If I was willing to shift to Octane booster and nitros which I actually have the ability to introduce into the engine, but I was looking for something with a little longer fuse ! Small block chevy's.... lol.. Lets just say we love being the under dog and love the element of surprise. Your correct on doing more milder builds, although we have made available the cam in my car in both the USA small block and the Canadian big block and while a little lumpy at idle you don't have to go completely wild to use them. Going from what your mentioning, to get that last bit of performance gets expensive. Just take pistons for example. Take what a set of overbore pistons cost and they are actually pretty reasonable. Unfortunately its getting limited to cast pistons instead of forged but still very serviceable. We wanted big over bore forged pistons and modern rings. That road lead us to Venolia . Next thing you know we ordered up several sets of big bore (125 thou over the stock 3 7/16" bore). We made them smaller, lighter, with specialty coating, 3 rings and plasma moly rings. They were, lol pricy! Now do they outperform 4 ring cast pistons, oh for sure. Is it worth the cost... lol.. I am sure the AoK boys wives don't think so. But for the Boys.. why do it... easy, because we can! Had we found forged 125 thou pistons which a decade ago I could easily order, we likely wouldn't have went crazy and to be honest its not a path I would recommend for very many clients and definitely would suggest disclosing the cost to your significant other. But if you want them.. Here is where to buy them and were happy to hand over our specs and order information. http://www.venolia.com/ Finally, were looking forward to seeing you as well, and Ill finish off with a new version of something a number of the AoK boys family have attached to vehicles !

Very true. Actually George's daily driver which is a 1950 Plymouth 4 door with a small block 230 ci motor hits 5 grand in a heart beat. His 1929 Desoto is a bored out 265 with a 1023 cam in it ( 400 lift and 252 degrees of duration and it can crank 5,000-5,500. My 1949 Plymouth is 435 lift 258 degrees of duration and will crank to 6.000 rpm and our Velociraptor is 280 degrees duration and 446 lift and has no problem spinning north of 7,000 rpm. Both my 49 and the Dragster started their lives as 265 ci motors. They are definitely highly modified but the primary ingredient to get higher rev, and more torque is the cam.

Good tip. We do that regularly, as well as turning the cam bearings to the small hole where you can, which reduced the oil flow to the cam and helps the crank and rod bearings. If you want to get a slightly better ratio, I took the pumpkin (rear end gear set) our of a 1946-50 Chrysler which was 3:54 gears. You can literally pull the axles, drive shaft and switch the rear end pumpkin. Put it back together and away you go. Its a super simple upgrade.

Hi Fred - You are right at the cross over there, where in 1951 the biggest engine in a Canadian truck was a 250ci motor. In 1952 the 265 motor arrived. I will attach the dealer poster from 1952. On the HP front, between 117 - 120 hp if its a 250, and 123 hp and a bit more torque if its a 265. Cam profile will be different than a combine engine, which pulls the torque curve down to a lower RPM, but its the same HP. You also have an updraft carb on the combine and a different intake and exhaust on the combine engine as well as potentially a different oil pan. The oil pan depended on which combine or swather manufacturer. So used truck some didn't. With the truck you will have the right oil pan, right intake and exhaust so with that you have less modifications to make. But, yes there is always a but, the truck cam profile is different than a car profile so depending on what your putting it in, and what your trying to get in terms of rpm and torque you may still feel the need to change the cam when the engine is out of the donor truck. But as you will see in the poster there is not a great deal of hp difference between a 250 in 1952 and 1951 although a little more torque. You can also determine the year of the engine by checking the drivers side of the block, down by the oil pan is the casting date. Now having said that if it is after 11 15 51 (nov 11th 1951) it could be a 265 motor and of course they made 250s in 1952. Tons of them. So easiest way to check that is pull the plug on the head toward the back of the engine, put in a rod, turn the engine over and measure the stroke (top dead center to bottom dead center). If it is 4 1/2" its a 250 and if its 4 3/4" its a 265. Hope that helps.

We hear from people regularly who want another opinion on something, or feel the general forum doesn't fit their needs because they want to ask - where can I buy ???? Or is "$x" to much for this or that. This is not a replacement for the buy and sell section of the forum, and for what it costs it is hugely under utilized. But if you maybe need a picture of a part you want to use to put up on that section asking to buy one, maybe we or a member can help you with it. Post away and we will see if we can get you some help. We maybe delete and restart this thread if it goes stale, but will try and provide folks a fair amount of rope. Tim

It depends on which spitfire head, which debuted in 1941 on cars shipped to Europe with the Canadian Military but didn't hit the civilian market until after the 2nd world war. The 265 of course debuted in 1952 and the while the head was made until late 1958 with spitfire on it, Chrysler stopped using the 265 spitfire in Cars in early 1954. There are slight differences in the head even on the 265 motors. As someone on the thread pointed out unless you like the name Spitfire on the head, which was a tribute to the Spitfire Airplane, there are actually better heads on other Mopar products. Either the smaller chambered head on the Canadian 218 Plymouth, the much harder to find late 1950's Plymouth 250 ci motor which was bang on 7:8 to 1, or a 1952-1954 Dodge truck 265 Engine which didn't have spitfire on it but had a smaller, closed chamber head. If you have one and can send me a picture I might have a chance to tell you what it is and what the cc's were stock. But even there, to measure the CC's as was done by the Chrysler Engineers you need to make sure you are CCing it the same way. Happy to help. George can be reached at 814-354-2621 and I can be reached at 519-766-5695 (text or call) Tim

Ok at least I understand your point of view. There is no concern about over heating what so ever by boring further. It easy still to find 30, 40 and 60 thou over pistons and rings. Above that the issue is getting pistons and rings not heat or cylinder wall thickness. Lol. these are not chev and fords with thin walls. We have routinely built performance engines 90 to 125 tho over bore but for the last 15 - 20 years that has meant going the custom piston route. Now for what is being described in this thread, there is no need to be going to that extreme, but boring 60 thou if you he needs to is really no problem. Personally I would tear it down and see what the cylinder walls look like. Maybe its just a case of new rings and a valve job to freshen things up. Now having said that, I did like where I though you were going, that being by getting a second engine, and build it up, he can keep driving his vehicle while he prepares a new engine. Then he can re and re engines, and reuse things from the current engine if they are in good shape. Things like the starter, water pump, distributor etc..

just curious, are you saying that because starting with another engine allows you to keep driving the one in the truck, or because your think boring it out 60 thou is too much ? The 1st I completely agree with. if it is the later, there is no issue what so ever to bore 60 thou.. Its all about finding the pistons and rings without going to custom pistons, which you can get any size you like obviously. But there is no problem boring the mopar 60, 80 90 or 100 thou +

Rock stock, none shaved head would be 120 pounds when it was fresh. So with 6th at 86 pounds its getting tired. Time for rings, and/or a rebuild if you want it closer to its original condition.

Well at the risk of sending the thread in the wrong direction here, 125 thou depending on what engine and what generation of head you have on it, could indeed be the cause of blowing head gaskets. I am trying to follow.. what is "SND around 125-30" ?

Well you can certainly get full syncro in lots of mopar transmissions. In my opinion a t5 makes zero sense in a pickup application. If you switching to a modern rear end as you seem to be, then you will have the parking brake looked after if you wish to go to a modern transmission without the hand brake on the back. Explore using a mopar a833 4 speed. Way less $ than your budgeting, better transmission and way less challenges. Drop me a pm if you like. TIm

Update on A833 Transmission Adapters. We now have a 2nd Adapter plate that will work for the 2wd truck bell housing with the floor shift heavy 3 speed, light 4 speed or heavier 4 speed transmission. Bellow is the new Adapter. Then a picture of the car Adapter plate and Truck Adapter plate, and then a picture of the two truck bell housings. Bottom line: In the continental United States truck adapter plates are $150 shipped which is $135 and $15 for shipping

I love the magic home brew formulas. Here is ours, although I may experiment and toss some acetone into it. While we have often pulled spark plugs and poured in some in each cylinder it is not always pistons ceased that has stopped the engine from turning over. In which case that becomes step 1. It can also be a cam ceased in, or a rod/crank ceased up which obviously gets into taking stuff apart. Even with an engine unseized we would be taking the head off to inspect what damage has taken place. But here is the formula, and we often blend up 5 gallons of it and just toss ceased parts into the mixture. Tim Kingsbury Magic Formula for unseizing things like engines! This will make a gallon of the formula. If you want 5 gallons just multiply everything by 5. 1 Quart of ATF fluid 1 Quart of Diesel Fuel 1 Quart of Olive Oil *note 1 1 Pint or 8 ounces of Hydraulic Fluid 1 Can (8 ounces) Sea Foam Deep Creep * note 2 Note 1: Olive Oil – you do not want extra virgin, or virgin olive oil. You want the cheapest grade you can find. - Ideally either U.S refined Olive Oil or U.S Olive Oil. U.S. Extra Virgin Olive Oil for oil with excellent flavor and odor and free fatty acid content of not more than 0.8 g per 100 g (0.8%); U.S. Virgin Olive Oil for oil with reasonably good flavor and odor and free fatty acid content of not more than 2 g per 100 g (2%); U.S. Virgin Olive Oil Not Fit For Human Consumption Without Further Processing is a virgin (mechanically-extracted) olive oil of poor flavor and odor, equivalent to the IOC's lampante oil; U.S. Olive Oil is an oil mix of both virgin and refined oils; U.S. Refined Olive Oil is an oil made from refined oils with some restrictions on the processing. Note 2: if you can only find the spray can hammer a nail into the top of the can, watching as it is under some pressure, and let the pressure off and then pour it into your mixture. Note 3: The formula if left can separate with some of the ingredients floating as they are lighter. Just give it a stir before using it. If we soaking ceased parts in it we might stir it up once every few days..

A lot of ifs would be correct.. But its not a picture of a 1940-41 you need, your barking up the wrong tree. I can get you pictures of a 1941 but I am telling you it is different that a 1939. You need to check if there is enough room for the two rods/levers to come from the steering column to the where the linkage mounts on the side of a 1940 and new transmission. Or we need someone who has put a side load transmission in a 1939 or 1938 Plymouth. I know it has been done There is a 1939 with an r7 overdrive not far from me. Unfortunately the guy who did the install has passed away, it was done over 20 years ago and his son who owns the car has no idea. Come spring I can likely get that car up on a hoist and see if I can figure out what he did but that isn't helping you right now