Canadian Built 25" B Flatty

[Johnny230]

...

Edited December 31, 2021 by Johnny230

[Normspeed]

That sounds like a neat combination, a 58 two door with the long block six. Yours may be the newest Mopar model on the forum. Same good old flathead design. I'm curious, did that have a pushbutton torqueflite bolted to the flattie? Welcome to the forum.

[Johnny230]

...

Edited December 31, 2021 by Johnny230

[Normspeed]

Sometimes they get more looks and comments than a v8. That is quite a setup, and with OD too. Mine's a 53, 218 with factory OD. There are some guys here that really know the long block motors well.

[Don Coatney]

Johnny 230;

Welcome to the forum. All Caniadian Mopars with flathead 6 cylinder engines

have the long block from the factory. On the left side of the engine near the

top front you wil find a flat "boss" with numbers on it. These numbers will tell

you what engine you have. Find and post these numbers and someone will tell

you what you have.

I have installed a Desoto long block flathead into my 48 American made

Plymouth. I dont drive my car every day but I have driven it close to 700

miles per day on a few occasions. It is very dependable.

[Plymouthy Adams]

You must check your stroke from the TDC position in relation to the BDC..to use the top of the cylinder bore is incorrect. Odds are the piston is just shy of the top of the cyclinder if you place a straight edge there. I still think that the 58 Plymouth was of the 230.2 CI variety..sad part is that my books are just shy of those years for specification.

[BobT-47P15]

Welcome Johnny. If you use Photo Bucket for your online album, it's real

easy to post photos. Note the little square yellow box with a mountain on

it at the top of the message area. Click on that, then post the url of your

picture by "cut & paste". Then go to the area below the box and click on

"preview post" to see if the pic opens properly.

There are a couple other methods to put pictures here. One involves the

paper clip at top of the box. The other is a round blue thing in the second

row that says, when putting your cursor on it, "insert link".

Or, you can copy & paste a link to your album in the body of the message.

Link to PhotoBucket web site......http://photobucket.com/?special_track=nav_logo

Check their info.....I think they still give you some free space for so many pics. If you exceed that,

they have an annual charge of about $25 for a lot more space. That's what I do.

[Johnny230]

...

Edited December 31, 2021 by Johnny230

[Johnny230]

Don Coatney said:

.

Edited December 31, 2021 by Johnny230

[Don Coatney]

Johnny;

Hopefully someone will chime in with engine number information. I do not have

any Canadian books with that information.

My Desoto engine is a thirty over 251 now a 255. Manifolds are modified stock

units. Gas mileage estimate is 15-16 MPG. Overdrive transmission with a

3.55/1 differential nets 70 MPH at around 2200 RPM's. How close are you to

Detroit? Several forum members (myself included) will be heading there July

31-August 1-2 for a POC plus POCOC meeting.

[Normspeed]

Is that the Plymouth Owners Club Outcasts?

[Don Coatney]

Is that the Plymouth Owners Club Outcasts?

Yep:cool:

[Johnny230]

...

Edited December 31, 2021 by Johnny230

[greg g]

Don may tell you that the tube is part of his moonshine injection system. In reality it is much more humble than that being the vacuum source for the windshild wipers.

Edmunds and Fenton made dual carb intakes, for long blocks, couple folks convert stock to dual, and if you look around at heavy duty Dodge or Fargo trucks, thee was a dual setup from the factory, (2 ton rated and higher)

Forum member Charlie Ackers (olddaddy) does up split intakes and exhausts,

www.rustyhope.com

and George Asche (his number is on the vendorl slist of the main page of this forums host site) also does the same.

Charlie also makes a disc brake conversion kit for front brakes.

I located a fenton for my short block 230, so the stuff is out there, I think Offenhauser manifolds are still available through Summit Racing, you need to call them as they are not in the catalog. Note the vacuum tube going from the monifold to the fire wall behind the rear carb,

[Don Coatney]

The center port is my moonshine injection system:D

[55 Fargo]

In Canada since 1937 Mopar built all L head 6s using 1 block, the 25 inch long block.

They created several different engine dispalcements, by having different bores and strokes, ie 218s had the same bore as a 228 but had a shorter stroke.

There were also 251s, 265s in Industrial applications such as forklifts and combines.

You could create a 251, or a 265 using a 218 block, this wotuld be accomplished by boring the cylinders out, using a 251 crank, and rods..

Chrysler Canada, no doubt only had the one engine block, as we do not sell anywhere near the volume that was sold in the USA, so for economics, and simplicity, we had one engine block size here...........Fred post the engine # that is cast into the top left front of the engine block, I wioll see if I can tell you what it came out of and what displacement it may be, sounds like you have a 230 ci........Fred

[Tony WestOZ]

I thought I read somewhere that though the 218 and 251 blocks are identical on the outside, internally they had slightly different cores.

The 218 could only be bored and stroked out to 242 (or maybe 246). If you tried to take it out to 251 plus the 60 thou over bore there was not enough meat left on the bores.

Bill Watson would know. He would know how to break down the engine number as well.

[55 Fargo]

They are the identical blocks, a 218 or 230 has plenty of meat to be bored to a 251 so I have been told, but maybe my source is incorrect........Fred ps But Bill W would know

[Tony WestOZ]

Have just done some quick calcs.

If the 218 and 228 block can be bored that far with the 60th over 251 pistons I have I can take the 218 out to 234 and the 228 can go out to 245.

Mmmm interesting.

[Johnny230]

...

Edited December 31, 2021 by Johnny230

[Tony WestOZ]

What`s Bill`s book I have never seen it.

Had a look at you pics, for a first timer you are progressing well. Just take your time you`ll be right.

Measure all your parts before you start ordering. I have found these engines to be very durable. Set of rings and a gasket kit can do wanders.

[Johnny230]

Rockwood said:

In Canada since 1937 Mopar built all L head 6s using 1 block, the 25 inch long block.

They created several different engine dispalcements, by having different bores and strokes, ie 218s had the same bore as a 228 but had a shorter stroke.

There were also 251s, 265s in Industrial applications such as forklifts and combines.

You could create a 251, or a 265 using a 218 block, this wotuld be accomplished by boring the cylinders out, using a 251 crank, and rods..

Chrysler Canada, no doubt only had the one engine block, as we do not sell anywhere near the volume that was sold in the USA, so for economics, and simplicity, we had one engine block size here...........Fred post the engine # that is cast into the top left front of the engine block, I wioll see if I can tell you what it came out of and what displacement it may be, sounds like you have a 230 ci........Fred

Rockwood said:

.

.

Edited December 31, 2021 by Johnny230

[Johnny230]

Tony WestOZ said:

.

.

Edited December 31, 2021 by Johnny230

[B-Watson]

To answer a few questions -

The engine number - L 1 1 2 8 7 C :

L - 1958

11287 - 10,287th 1958 flathead six built. First engine was 1001.

C - Made in Canada

(Canadian 1958 Plymouth and Dodge 313-V8 engines used prefix "LV".)

The engine is a 250.6-cid engine (25" block) with a 3-7/16" bore and 4½" stroke and was used in the 1958 Plymouth and Dodge. Should point out that the Torqueflite transmission was never offered with a six-cylinder engine. That would have to wait until 1960 and the A904 Torqueflite. And while the 1954-59 Powerflite was available on 6 or V8 engines, the last two years (1960-61) the Powerflite was a V8-only transmission.

The 250.6 engine was used on all six-cylinder Plymouths and Dodges from 1956 through 1959, plus the 1955 Plymouths and Dodges with Powerflite. The 1955 models with the 3-speed manual used the 228.1-cid engine. You can tell the two 1955 engines apart by the engine number as the 250.6 engines have an "X" in the suffix.

The 230 engine was based on the 23" block while the 25" block equivalent, if you like, is the 228.1-cid engine. 230 cubes was the biggest the 23" block got.

There were two "218" engines, the 23" block that came in at 217.6-cid and the 25" block with 218.1-cid.

The 23" block with 3.125" bore was available in the following sizes -

4-1/8" stroke - 189.8-cid

4-3/8" stroke - 201.3-cid

The 23" block with 3.25" bore was available in the following sizes -

4-3/8" stroke - 217.6-cid

4-5/8" stroke - 230.6-cid

The 25" block with 3-3/8" bore was available in the following sizes -

3-3/4" stroke - 201.3-cid

4-1/16" stroke - 218.1-cid

4-1/4" stroke - 228.1-cid

4-1/2" stroke - 241.5-cid

The 25" block with 3-7/16" bore was available in the following sizes -

4-1/4" stroke - 236.6-cid

4-1/2" stroke - 250.6-cid

4-3/4" stroke - 264.5-cid

Chrysler usually offered ovesize pistons and rings to a maximum of .060". Which means you could bore the engines to a maximum -

3.125" bore to 3.185"

3.25" bore to 3.31"

3.375" (3/8) bore to 3.435"

3.4375" (7/16) bores to 3.4975"

So you could bore a 228.1 engine to almost 236.6 and the 241.5 engine to almost 250.6. By boring the cylinders another 0.0025" you could use the larger 250.6 pistons and rings. And if you used the connecting rods and crank from a 250.6 you could create one from any 218.1, 228.1 or 236.6 engine. Connecting rod bearings are the same for all 25" block engines as are the crank bearings.

The interchangeability exists with the 23" block engines. Just remember the maximum you can bore it - even .090" brings up to only a 3.315" bore.

When the engines are cast, the cylinder walls are about the same thickness regardless of bore size. This done by increasing the diameter between cylinder walls within the bore, which also decreases the space between the external walls of the bores. This is necessary as cylinder walls that are too thick would not dissipate heat quickly enough.

And thus the reason for the different block casting for 23" block engines (3-1/8" and 3-1/4" bores) as well the 25" block engines (3-3/8" and 3-7/16" bores). And why the maximum amount of boring any cylinder can take, regardless of original bore size.

The only thing to watch out for are the 1953-54 blocks the used an engine-fed oil supply for the torque converter. These blocks were used on cars with Fluid-Torque-Drive (Dodge, DeSoto and Chrysler) and Hy-Drive (Plymouth and small Dodge). Torque converties on Powerflite units used the transmission oil.

I think you will enjoy my book. It has all the models sold in Canada (series, body styles, prices, weights, serial numbers) frpm 1930 through 1980 and identifies which were actually built in Canada and which were imported. Along with a general history of the automotive times, auto companies, and makes, there are listings of the colours and colour codes from 1949 through 1966. I am still trying to dig up pre-1949 information.

Bill

Vancouver, BC

[Don Coatney]

Bill;

Great information.... Thanks for posting.