Oh no What have I done

[Normspeed]

Arthur, dibs on Rodney's share.

[Rodney Bullock]

I guess it's official, The Plymouth is running again it's been a long road I have been checking the points with a screw driver and that's not what you should do:mad: use your finger or any other non metalic device. I put the points in and vorrrrroom. So the Sunshine is back and I feel fine. thanks all thank you very much.

[JIPJOBXX]

These old cars can be so simple but also so mystifying. Glad to see you figured out your problem and enjoy your next cool ride in your old fat fender-ed car.

[Don Coatney]

I guess it's official, The Plymouth is running again it's been a long road I have been checking the points with a screw driver and that's not what you should do:mad: use your finger or any other non metalic device. I put the points in and vorrrrroom. So the Sunshine is back and I feel fine. thanks all thank you very much.

Rodney;

Did you remove the distributor to install the new points?

[Rodney Bullock]

No Don, I thought that would be opening a can of bee's, I took a magnetic device and short flat head screw driver and very carefully put the little screws back in, I was scared to death because as a young person working on my Dodge Demon I lost a screw once. When I got the little screw started that holds the condensor,ground, and points wire I was home free. I wanted to remove it and bring it to my mechanis however he told me that was not a good idea as my problem had to be with the points. He kept saying take them out and clean them. I cleaned them with emory clothe however once I took them out the damage was so severe cleaning them in the car would not have helped at all.

[Don Coatney]

No Don, I thought that would be opening a can of bee's, I took a magnetic device and short flat head screw driver and very carefully put the little screws back in, I was scared to death because as a young person working on my Dodge Demon I lost a screw once. When I got the little screw started that holds the condensor,ground, and points wire I was home free. I wanted to remove it and bring it to my mechanis however he told me that was not a good idea as my problem had to be with the points. He kept saying take them out and clean them. I cleaned them with emory clothe however once I took them out the damage was so severe cleaning them in the car would not have helped at all.

Rodney;

Pulling the distributor is nothing to be afraid of. It makes installing and adjusting points much easier. Had you pulled your distributor when you sanded your points you would have known to change them at that time. Once you install new points you should re-time the distributor as the timing has changed.

[De Soto Frank]

Rodney,

Just make sure you're no-where near that high-tension wire from the coil when you're opening those points to check for spark... I've gotten a nasty surprise or two that way !!!!

FWIW, I have never pulled the dizzy to change points except on Dad's

Ford 9-N, with the lovely front-mounted distributor.

Not saying the idea doesn't have merit with a flatty MoPar, just haven't gone there myself...

Regarding adjustment on the breaker points, I tend to err a bit on the "loose" side, especially if it's a brand-new set of points (to allow for the fibre or nylon rubbing-block to wear-in; Stovebolt Chevys recommended .019" for NEW points, and .016" for used points)... ideally you should feel just a slight drag on the feeler blade. I like to use either an individual blade or those tiny fold-up sets, so there's less chance of a big, heavy pack of handle/other blades that might cause the whole thing to twist and cause a false reading.

It's also a good idea to wipe a little Lubriplate or Vaseline on the dizzy cam, to prevent excessive wear on the rubbing block.

Glad it's running again Rodney !

De Soto Frank

[Rodney Bullock]

Well, I went down to the country house today to do my monthly work, cut grass, trim tree's and cut up wood. I used the Plymouth almost exclusively, running around all day. Took a friend to lunch 10 miles up the road we talked and talked and time got away from me. I went out to start it and it turned over however I forgot to give it gas, the next time I tried it just clicked:mad: then a poof of smoke from that starter relay. Oh boy, I and my friend who have dealt with old cars together for 20 years just pushed it back, dropped it in 1st and let the clutch out and we were on our way. I took him home than started on my 22 mile ride home in ruch hour traffic. The temp got up to 180 normally it';s at 160. I got home put the car in the port, shut it down and just looked at it. than I went to start it and it started right up. I pulled the plugs and they were dark so I cleaned them and regaped the points. It started instantly. I ordered a starter relay from napa. I am going to get it tomorrow. That is the last weak link. I had a problem with it when I was trying to start the car all week. just to much cranking on it. I guess other than that the car rides out great. I even changed the coil wire pos. to the distributor neg to the switch. To be honest I don't feel any difference.

[Don Coatney]

Well, I went down to the country house today to do my monthly work, cut grass, trim tree's and cut up wood. I used the Plymouth almost exclusively, running around all day. Took a friend to lunch 10 miles up the road we talked and talked and time got away from me. I went out to start it and it turned over however I forgot to give it gas, the next time I tried it just clicked:mad: then a poof of smoke from that starter relay. Oh boy, I and my friend who have dealt with old cars together for 20 years just pushed it back, dropped it in 1st and let the clutch out and we were on our way. I took him home than started on my 22 mile ride home in ruch hour traffic. The temp got up to 180 normally it';s at 160. I got home put the car in the port, shut it down and just looked at it. than I went to start it and it started right up. I pulled the plugs and they were dark so I cleaned them and regaped the points. It started instantly. I ordered a starter relay from napa. I am going to get it tomorrow. That is the last weak link. I had a problem with it when I was trying to start the car all week. just to much cranking on it. I guess other than that the car rides out great. I even changed the coil wire pos. to the distributor neg to the switch. To be honest I don't feel any difference.

Rodney;

Not sure what a poof of smoke is. If you gave it steroids would it be a puff? If you ax me I think you need to clean and tighten your battery cables (all 6 ends).

[Rodney Bullock]

Ok folks I finally got things in order however I must confess something. I replaced my points..only the one side. I bought points that detached from the plate leaving the bottom intact on the plate. The car ran a little bad on the way home and worst yhis morning. I put new plugs in and it started than did what it had done on monday would nt start. I check the points this time with my finger and it had a very very weak spark. I got the bright idea to plull the rest of the points. The bottom was worst than what I saw on the top. I did get another set of points fro auto zone and I put them in.

At this point I shopuld note that Don is right it is much easier to put those points in with the distributor out. It took me 45 min. to get that little screw back in the hold that hold the points. Man:mad: that's hard. You have to adjust the points so the hole is lined up with the screw hole.

everything is back to normal now and running great.....I will never touch something unless it falls off.

Oh, I replaced the starter relay Hey Don, no more poof:D

[Don Coatney]

Rodney;

It takes a lot less than 45 minutes to remove and re-install a distributor. Poof and it is done. You can puff if you need another hit:D

[dirty dan]

I'm not clear on whether you're running a 6 volt or a 12 volt system. If you're running a 12 volt system, you need the resistor coil or you'll continually be burning your points. One symptom of too high of a voltage there, is a deep pitting in your points. Even with the high (12 v) voltage, it shouldn't happen as quick as it seems to have happened to you.

Poorly gapped points will foul quickly as well. If you draw a piece of sandpaper through to clean the points, follow behind it with a folded up dollar bill. That does a great job of cleaning the points behind the sand paper or emory cloth.

Your coil serves two functions. It provides low voltage (primary coil wire) to the points and condenser, and it provides high voltage (secondary coil wire) for the spark. If you remove the distributor cap and place it to the side, turn on your key and crank the engine while watching the points. If you see a spark repeating across your points, you know that your primary side of the coil is working as are your points.

If you don't see a spark across the points, check your primary wire (the one that goes from the coil to the bottom side of the distributor) with a voltmeter while the key is turned on. If your wire is coming from the + side of the coil, ground your tester to the - battery post, If your wire is coming from the - side of the coil, ground your tester to the + battery post. If you're getting at least 5 volts there, your coil primary side is good. If you're not getting voltage there, check to see if the wire is grounded somewhere between the coil and the distibutor. (a favorite place they like to ground out is on the distributor housing itself) If you have no voltage there, make sure your getting voltage to the other side of the coil primary. If not, your problem is between the coil and your ignition switch. If you get voltage from the front side of the coil, but not to the distributor side of the coil, your coil is bad.

If the voltage is good from the coil primary, turn off the key, clean and reset the point gap (making sure that your points are resting on a high spot of the distributor cam) to .020", then try the cranking test again. If you get no spark again across the points, replace your points and condenser.

Now, say you have a spark across the points...Have someone crank the car and see if you're getting a spark at your plug wires. Try several wires by sticking the business end of a #2 phillips screw driver into the plug end of the wire, and holding the screw driver by the insulated handle, place the metal shaft of the screw driver within 1/4" of the head while your helper tries to start the engine. Try 2-4 wires in this manner. If you don't see a spark on any of the wires, your coil secondary is most likely shot and you go buy a new coil. If you're getting a spark at just some wires, you have a problem with loose wires, bad wires, or a bad cap.

If you're getting spark on all wires, pull the plugs and check them one at a time. Remove the plug from the head, hook the plug to the wire and hold the steel side of the plug firmly against the head with some insulated tool. If you don't get a spark now, your plug is bad. If you're getting a spark at all of the plugs (regap them before you put them back in), you're most likely facing a timing problem or have placed the wires incorrectly on the distributor cap or plugs.

My P-23 distributor rotor, rotates clockwise. #1 is at the 6:30 position as you face the distributor. The firing order is 153624.

I hope this is of some help.

Also, check out this link...

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/ignition-system.htm/printable

[Rodney Bullock]

What they did Shel was listen to the radio with the switch on, I have the inverter and soild state rebuild on my Radio. They found out that I had FM so the actor changed the channel and while filming stalled he turned the switch on to the radio. I have not changed points in 5 years and there was nothing wrong with the system when I left it there:D don't worry they will pay, I have an invoice already for them. 365.50

studipity cost:cool:

[Normspeed]

Rodney;

It takes a lot less than 45 minutes to remove and re-install a distributor. Poof and it is done. You can puff if you need another hit:D

errrrr, uhhhhh, say what?

[Frank Blackstone]

Rodney You getting to be a real gearhead changing points and everything. And a shade tree mechanic to boot. We don't need no stinkin' garage. I think the manual recommends using a points file to clean up and level the surface of points. I got mine at a parts store 30 years ago.

I am small and agile enough to change points with the dissy in place. That little screw installation is enough to make you lose your religion. Keep 'em flying, Frank

[Normspeed]

Yup, Rodney is getting into the hobby up to his elbows. Here's an inexpensive tool for starting those pesky little distributor screws. You twist to preload, push the screw on and it grips the screw by the inside of the groove.

[Rodney Bullock]

I know I was not crazy, I remember magnetic screw driver's as a kid. Normspeed that screw driver you showed is a mustI looked for one yesterday and no body had anything like it. We will have to find a source and get some, I have the little open end wrenches however the driver is a must. I got my big light out and everything, it wasen;t until I got that hole in the points lined up with the screw hole that I had success:)

[Rodney Bullock]

Rodney You getting to be a real gearhead changing points and everything. And a shade tree mechanic to boot. We don't need no stinkin' garage. I think the manual recommends using a points file to clean up and level the surface of points. I got mine at a parts store 30 years ago.

I am small and agile enough to change points with the dissy in place. That little screw installation is enough to make you lose your religion. Keep 'em flying, Frank

Frank I would love to find one of those files and I think it would work on points that have usual wear, mine was burnt into a swirl I have never seen anything like it. I sanded it a couple of times and the swirl was still there strange:o

[Don Coatney]

Frank I would love to find one of those files and I think it would work on points that have usual wear, mine was burnt into a swirl I have never seen anything like it. I sanded it a couple of times and the swirl was still there strange:o

Rodney;

Point files and starting screw drivers are basics in any tool box. I have 3-4 of each. Go to the McMaster Carr website and order some today.

[Rodney Bullock]

Don, I would love to have a set of tools like that:) it would make my life alot easier. I noticed when I was trying to sand those points down, you can't really do it with sand paper. You need a file. I think if you are going to take some off it has to be even and you have to take some off the arm as well as the base. I learned some real important stuff here this week. I think sometimes it takes something like this to really test your knowlege and make you go beyond your comfort zone. I am not afraid anymore:D

[greg g]

Hey Rodney, if you need a good laugh, go to the nearest NAPA, find the youngest looking counter person there and tell them you need to buy a points file. They do have them on one of those irritating cardboard and blast proof plastic packages for about a buck fifty. But tell them you on a scavenger hunt and don't know much about them other than it is some kind of tool.

[Don Coatney]

It is more fun to ask the young female clerk for a pet cock.

Been there, done that....

[Niel Hoback]

Ok, you started me. My first job as a kid was at a hardware and mill supply company. Early on a n elderly woman came in whose husband was the maintenance guy for an apartment house. Picture a me, first job, and the woman says, "I need a 6 inch flat bastard".

One of the other guys told me she wanted a file. There was much laughter after she had gone, but it taught me to be ready for anything.

Geez, that was 50 years ago and still remember it vividly.

[clay diggs]

Thank you Don & Niel.I needed a good laugh.

[Jerry Roberts]

On filing points ; The real old points were solid platinum and could be filed with success ( don't ask me the dates ) the newer points were only coated and so a filed set of more modern points would soon be pitted . That was the way that I learned it , correct me if I am wrong .