Critical Condition.

[Robert Smith]

Well guys, this is Rob… the kid with the daily ’46 P-15.

I’ve owned this car for over 4 years now; it has been a wonderful and trying time. I have made many wonderful memories with this car… now it looks as if it’s coming to an end.

The car was running great, smooth and no real complaints. Then last Thursday (June 5th) I went to run some errands. As I drove three blocks, I came to a stop sign… as I stopped I heard the motor idling very rough! It was vibrating the entire front clip! I drove over to my mechanic’s place and he said he’d take the car in the next morning… figured it could be some blockage in the carburetor.

Well, I had it taken in and well, I get a call and was told that he ran a compression test on the motor… found that there was no life in three cylinders… 4. 5. and 6. were dead! And I only had 75 pounds of pressure in the first three cylinders!

How did this happen all of a sudden? I wish I knew… the motor really seemed to be running fine the very day before… now; it looks to be needing a rebuild… I know that’s what it will take… or, finding another flat head 6 to replace it with. I have a major problem, in the money department, I work two jobs part time and the cash for a rebuild isn’t there. This was so unexpected, I was keeping oil in the car and checking it… and my oil gage always read 40 and seemed to have good pressure. If it dipped ever, I would ad oil.

So, anyone living close to the LA area have a spare 6 in running order they want to unload?

Robert=

[greg g]

As long as its in have him pull the head, it could be as simple as a head gasket, especially if it went that quickly, a failure between paired cylinders will allow compression to slip between cylinder screwing up compression test readings. Pullig the head will also show any valve problems. 75 lbs is not an uncommon reading for these engines especially if they are a bit long in tooth. The fact that they are even at the front is actually a good sign.

I have a 218 in the garage but at 3400 miles away, it won't help much.

[bob_amos]

Have your guy perform a cylinder leak down test. This will point you in the right direction as to where the compression is leaking. Once you know where it's going you then can make a decission as to how to approach the problem. A head gasket is an easy fix on our flatties as opposed to an entire engine. You troubles could be as easy as the gasket or an entire engine or anywhere between. Since it all went away so rapidly I'd say that it's not in the pricey part of the engine. The leak down test will confirm the fault.

[Robert Smith]

Hmmm, I did have a valve job preformed over a year ago... so, not sure if the head gasket would have gone bad that fast.

Monday I'll have to have things checked out... I fear the worst however... I was getting over 100 pounds in them cylinders or more... then, 75 pounds and three go out... do you guys think the motor wasn't getting oil? I did check the oil when I noticed the problem and it was very low... I think I have a very bad oil leak.

=R

[James_Douglas]

Robert,

Short of a large problem of cracks in the block...which I doubt. Assuming the valve job was done correct...

It is the head gasket or the rings gone bad. If the engine got very very low on oil and got very very hot, you could in theory wear down the rings and loose compression.

All that said… the others are correct. The big loss between a couple of adjoining cylinders all spells head gasket.

Call or go out to Egge, if you are in the LA Area, and ask for a high quality head gasket not their normal one. They use someone close by that makes a better than normal gasket. I can’t remember their name, but they are like 10 minutes away from egge.

A lot of shops do not take the time to properly install a head gasket on our flathead engines. The level of cleanliness and the attention to detail on installation required on a flathead is far and above an OHV engine.

Make sure that when they put a new gasket on that they turn down the nuts in 10 POUND increments up to 20 pounds short of the final torque. Then do the last 20 pounds in FIVE POUND increments. It takes about 30 minutes to go over the head nut pattern this way. However, it will assure a proper torque.

Best, James

[Robert Smith]

Mmm, do you have a phone number for Egge? I've never heard of this place and don't know where it is... I live in Morovia which is east of Pasadena.

I deeply appreciate the help and advice! I know most of you guys have been at this longer then I have so, I want to have hope but, I'm having a hard time. How much is a head gasket by the way?

=R

[bob_amos]

EGGE MACHINE COMPANY

11707 Slauson Avenue

Santa Fe Springs , CA 90670

866-586-EGGE (3443)

[Dennis Hemingway]

Robert, Here is the web site.

Dennis

http://www.egge.com/

[Reg Evans]

If it turns out to be just the head gasket have the head checked for flatness before you re-install. After your valve job did your mechanic re-torque the head bolts after a couple of heat cycles? The whole job should only take a few hours. Good Luck !

[Robert Smith]

Not sure really what he did other then replace the valves and such... it was over a year ago and I can't recall or find the list of things he did do.

Tomorrow I'm gettin' on the path to finding out what this problem is for sure! Wish me luck!

=R

[bob_amos]

Todays cars are generally a no retorque type of thing. There are many mechanics today that don't even know that they are required to retorque some of the older engines. If you don't mention this to the guy he may do the same thing and the results will certainly be the same. It never hurts to help advise the mechanic doing the work on these older vehicles. Being a professional mechnic for over 40 years I know what I am doing but never turn down a suggestion on something I may have forgotten or maybe never knew because I just didn't have to oportunity to do that particular job in the past. We just had a 49 Pontiac flathead 6 in the shop that had an intake gasket problem that we just could never really get worked out. Surfacing the manifold and progressive torquing just didn't help. In the end, we installed an Egge made gasket and all was finally well. The owner was the one to recommend Egge, even though I have used them in the past.

[Normspeed]

Hiya Robert, I know of 2 or more complete engines in the area. None would be an absolute instant bolt-in, there's always some amount of parts swapping involved.

1941Dodge lives near us, and not long ago he had a complete Dodge 230 motor for sale. It had a 12 volt alternator so probably had been converted to 12 volt. It was out of a fluid drive car and looked pretty clean, probaby had been rebuilt at some point. You could PM him.

Also, Darin (47Heaven) located a lady in Pomona with a stash of Mopar stuff that her ex left behind. Among the stuff was a rebuilt flathead that was stored inside her garage workroom. It would need to be finished up. It was assembled to the long block state with head and pan installed but would need timing cover, intake, exhaust, etc installed. No idea what was done on the rebuild, it's been sitting in the garage for over five years. The photos are of that motor.

Then, there is a guy up in Lancaster area who has a running flathead, someone on the HAMB tipped me to it. I think he was looking for around $100 for it. I lost the link but might be able to dig it up.

No matter how you look at it, to replace the whole thing is no small job and you need to be able to transport the new motor from its location to yours.

[Robert Smith]

Well guys, this is Rob and I have good news. The problem was the head gasket! Last Tuesday m mechanic and I pulled off the head and we saw a break in the rear of the gasket... that is why 5 and 6 died... now, #4 died because of a valve that isn't working right. But, the other valves are looking quite good.

I sent out the block to Johnson's and had it re-serfaced and checked for cracks... no cracks! YAY! And I had a nice copper gasket ordered up and picked it up at Ernie's Auto just the other day. It all went back together today and she's now driving a little better then she did before the problem came about.

So, this fall, I have a pal who said he'd help me put in new valves and also harden the seats! Can't wait to get that all done!

I'm so happy it wasn't something I was going to really have a hard time getting fixed! Thanks again to you guys for all the help!

=R

[Robin (UK)]

Rob,

Excellent news.

Do make sure to re-torque the head bolts after a running-in period, otherwise you'll get the same problem down the line.

Also, might be worth pointing out that you already have hardened valve seats in that old flathead. So it's a job you don't need to do.

Great to know you're back in your P15.

Robin.

[Plymouthy Adams]

Robert..the valve have always been hardened fromt he factory in these engines..

[Powerhouse]

Great News Bropar!