Water Pump interchangeability

[Mopar-Boy]

I have a 1933 201 water pump that is "weeping" minor amounts of water.  I see numerous water pumps for 230s, 1935 and forward and wondering if I use the back plate that fits between the block and the pump, from my 201 water pump, and block the heater port on top, can I use a 230 water pump with a 201 back plate on a 1933 201?  OR... better yet, does anyone know where I might purchase a rebuilt 201 waterpump?

[TodFitch]

Best option is to have your current water pump rebuilt. I have used Arthur Gould a couple of times but there are other vendors.

 

The internals of the 1933/34 pump are the same as the later 1930s pumps and vintage rebuild kits are still fairly available so if you have the right tools and skills you can rebuild it yourself. At a minimum you will need a press but having a lathe or appropriate reamers may also be required.

 

The shape of the water pump body is different between 1933/34 and later pumps so if you put a 33 backing plate on a later pump you will have some large gaps. But you can make a new custom backing plate to adapt a later water pump to the 33/34 block. The good news is the bolt pattern is the same so with a custom backing plate the newer pump will mount correctly.

 

edit: My solution is to have two water pumps. A rebuilt one on the shelf and the one on the car. If/when the pump fails, I swap in the one on the shelf then get the failed one rebuilt and put that on the shelf.

[Mopar-Boy]

by the way, the water pump weeped occasionally before I had the motor out.  I have disassembled it w new bearings (not sure whether they are brass or bronze).  Good stiff resistance to rotation.  I also read that the best grease is calcium based so I have ordered some.  Not too worried, just tapping into the expertise here!  I just love the look of the block on the old 201s (silhouetted cylinders) and if the calcium grease doesn't manage the weeping I would prefer to macgyver a solution!  It runs GREAT.  Thanks to this forum!

[Mopar-Boy]

GREAT idea.  I will get a later model and build a backing plate that aligns w the 33 gasket, and hang on to it until absolutely necessary.

[p15-1948]

4 hours ago, TodFitch said:

Best option is to have your current water pump rebuilt. I have used Arthur Gould a couple of times but there are other vendors.

 

The internals of the 1933/34 pump are the same as the later 1930s pumps and vintage rebuild kits are still fairly available so if you have the right tools and skills you can rebuild it yourself. At a minimum you will need a press but having a lathe or appropriate reamers may also be required.

 

The shape of the water pump body is different between 1933/34 and later pumps so if you put a 33 backing plate on a later pump you will have some large gaps. But you can make a new custom backing plate to adapt a later water pump to the 33/34 block. The good news is the bolt pattern is the same so with a custom backing plate the newer pump will mount correctly.

 

edit: My solution is to have two water pumps. A rebuilt one on the shelf and the one on the car. If/when the pump fails, I swap in the one on the shelf then get the failed one rebuilt and put that on the shelf.

 

If you're in the Midwest, I've used Casper Brake and Clutch to rebuild water pumps in Kansas City.  Good service and quick turn around.  Casper Brake & Clutch Co | Kansas City, MO 64108 (casperkc.com)

Edited January 18 by p15-1948

[Mopar-Boy]

I'm in GA.

 

[andyd]

Moparboy.........the engine looks good, especially like the extra carb option.....lol........but what is that thing on the side of the block between the dissy & the generator?.........andyd

[D35 Torpedo]

Looks like a pcv

[Mopar-Boy]

It is a PCV! with an air/oil separator.  Once I decided to deviate from stock, I wanted a bit of a steampunk look in the engine bay.  I took the large vacuum port on the intake and ran it to the PCV mounted in place of the old oil filler cap.  I used as much glass (old glass GM fuel filter) and copper or copper alloy tubing as possible (again just for looks).  Also painted the intake and the radiator hose elbow that I made in antique copper engine paint.  The vacuum loss hopefully offsets the old auto clutching mechanism that I removed and will sell once I get around to it.  Hopefully reduces the amount of oil just dripping out of the downdraft tube, don't know yet...  I'm going to keep the car exterior in its original paint, keep it covered in floor wax to protect it, etc.  

[Sniper]

Did you put a filter on the downdraft tube?  Otherwise you are sucking dirty air into the engine.

[TodFitch]

55 minutes ago, Sniper said:

Did you put a filter on the downdraft tube?  Otherwise you are sucking dirty air into the engine.

Concur 100%

 

The original design has the wire mesh inside the oil filler cap as an air filter for air into the crankcase. Vacuum to pull air in provided by the road draft tube on the opposite side rear of the engine. And the Chrysler solution for positive crankcase ventilation (PCV) as used on military trucks in the 1940s was to run replace the road draft tube with a line to the intake manifold with a PCV valve in the line.

 

You can still get that setup from places that cater to the military power wagon crowd. Or you can roll your own using a modern PCV valve for an engine with similar displacement and some fitting created from parts purchased at your local hardware store.

[Sniper]

One thing I found out when delving into PCV's, size of the engine doesn't really matter.  On another site I frequent there was some discussion about adding one to an engine and the site brain trust declared that some very fancy high dollar billet and tuneable setup was the way to go.  https://mewagner.com/?p=444 

 

In the 1974 Chrysler parts manual, they list 1 valve for all engine, from the 225 to the 440.  So I am not sure how critical any of that is.  But I imagine one listed for the 225 will work fine in our engines.  I am also pretty sure that I will never need a $130 PCV valve and if I was that worried about it I could use the Microsquirt setup I have to PWM a valve to do all of that for not much more than a regular PCV valve.

[Mopar-Boy]

the PCV was from my spare parts working on 60s era Mopars.  Re a screen on the downdraft, THAT is a great point!

 

[Mopar-Boy]

@Sniper and @TodFitch, Thanks for the heads up on my PCV causing dirt and dust to be sucked into the down draft tube!  Dodged a bullet...  I found an old filler neck and cap and a downdraft tube from a cracked 230 block and combined them (quick welderup) and should be OK.  Thanks again sirs!  You can see the top of the filler tube w the original breather right behind the intake manifold.

[Mopar-Boy]

On 1/18/2024 at 12:54 PM, TodFitch said:

Best option is to have your current water pump rebuilt. I have used Arthur Gould a couple of times but there are other vendors.

 

The internals of the 1933/34 pump are the same as the later 1930s pumps and vintage rebuild kits are still fairly available so if you have the right tools and skills you can rebuild it yourself. At a minimum you will need a press but having a lathe or appropriate reamers may also be required.

 

The shape of the water pump body is different between 1933/34 and later pumps so if you put a 33 backing plate on a later pump you will have some large gaps. But you can make a new custom backing plate to adapt a later water pump to the 33/34 block. The good news is the bolt pattern is the same so with a custom backing plate the newer pump will mount correctly.

 

edit: My solution is to have two water pumps. A rebuilt one on the shelf and the one on the car. If/when the pump fails, I swap in the one on the shelf then get the failed one rebuilt and put that on the shelf.

@TodFitch, I found what was advertised in ebay as a '35 water pump.  It had the hole on top to facilitate a thermostat bypass but it had the square return vs the tear dropped return for the copper water tubes in 35 and later.  This worked perfectly and seems to be holding up just fine.  Not sure what years/models/makes would have had the square return AND the hole on top for the bypass, BUT it works great!  Thanks again.

[TodFitch]

3 hours ago, Mopar-Boy said:

@TodFitch, I found what was advertised in ebay as a '35 water pump.  It had the hole on top to facilitate a thermostat bypass but it had the square return vs the tear dropped return for the copper water tubes in 35 and later.  This worked perfectly and seems to be holding up just fine.  Not sure what years/models/makes would have had the square return AND the hole on top for the bypass, BUT it works great!  Thanks again.

The bypass started in 1934 but was only on the DeLuxe models. Odd that a '35 pump had the square outlet. Maybe it was very early production but I thought all '35 cars had the wider block with the full length water jacket, water distribution tube and half-moon shaped outlet on the water pump.

[Mopar-Boy]

The ad DID say he wasn’t certain. My money is on your assessment.  It is certainly a 34!  Thanks again @TodFitch!