Installed turn signals!

[Ivan_B]

I can finally share a good thing: I just finished my turn signals! Well, almost, I still have to properly route the wiring  and do some cosmetic adjustments. Sorry for the messy pictures, could not wait, since I am very excited that this is finally done and I no longer have to "wave" to people at intersections ?

 

I am using 4 LED bulbs, 4 5-pin relays, LED flasher, 3-position toggle switch, and about 55 ft. of 16 gauge wire. My goal was to keep the car original, so I am simply flashing the existing lights (parking lights at the front, and the brake lights at the rear). I also attempted to keep all of the original wiring, so I connected my relays to the front connection plate at the driver's inner fender (for the front) and into the brake circuit splice in the trunk (for the back). Once I looked at the brake circuit wiring, I discovered that it was already broken and repaired (by tying the wires together) some time in the past, so I did not even have to cut anything

 

It took me a whole day to do the wiring, and then another two days to figure-out why it did not work (the LED flasher, I got, turner-out to be defective so I had to order another one) ?

You can do the same thing using just 2 relays and much less wire, if you are willing to alter the existing wiring harness. But I did not go that route.

 

Here are the relays for the front bulbs under the hood:

I am still waiting for the cloth electrical tape to arrive, so that I can properly wrap everything in the OEM style. It will be less noticeable and look more professional that way.

 

 

The rear lights wiring looks a bit more messy:

I will wrap the cables together, hang the relays onto the top shelf above the trunk, and cover it up with carpet, so no one will ever see this. Also, I ran out of the fancy cloth wire and had to use a plane black one.

 

Here is the switch:

I could not find a good-looking column-mounted one, so decided to use a simple toggle instead. I think it fits in very nicely and keeps the car looking stock. And no, I did not drill the dash. I mounted it in place of the heater fan blower switch, which I relocated into an extra available hole below the radio speaker in the middle of the dash (this way, both the driver and passenger can control the heater, which I think makes more sense than the original installation).

Edited September 2, 2023 by Ivan_B

[Ivan_B]

And here is the result (see attachments) ?

These are quite visible in daylight too!

 

 

 

[P15-D24]

Please post a wiring diagram if possible. 

[Ivan_B]

I was planning to do a more comprehensive write-up, if people are interested. Just let me finish it completely first ?

[Bob Ritter]

Ivan it easy to see that you put a lot of time into your project. I would like to make a suggest when using all the same color wire that use the multi color shrink tubing, it will help if you ever have to check for short. You can find the multi color kits on Ebay. Thanks for sharing...

[D35 Torpedo]

So what happens when you have the park lights on or hit the brakes??

[Ivan_B]

3 hours ago, Bob Ritter said:

I would like to make a suggest when using all the same color wire that use the multi color shrink tubing, it will help if you ever have to check for short.

Bob, thanks for the feedback. This is by no means the proper wiring job, not according to code, anyway, so any kind of constructive criticism is always very welcome  The scheme is pretty simple so if I sell the car, I trust that the next owner will be able to trace the wires with a multi-meter, in about 5 minutes. Without too much cursing, I hope ?

 

3 hours ago, D35 Torpedo said:

So what happens when you have the park lights on or hit the brakes??

The above animated illustrations are actually with the parking-lights on. The front will always flash, no matter if the parking lights are on or off. The rear will also always flash the brake light circuit (the higher brightness one) no matter what you do. If the brakes are applied while turning, only one side brake light will activate. The other side will be flashing.

I was considering hooking up the flasher to the rear parking lights (instead of the brakes) as well, but decided against that. I figured that most of the time I'll also be braking while turning, and applying the bright brakes will "block" the less bright parking light from being visible, so no one will notice that I am also flashing. An operating flasher, on the other hand, also attracts other motorists' attention, just like the brake light. So I believe that flashing the brake light is preferred over the parking light.

 

I believe that this scheme is very similar to the OEM configuration of some later vehicles, where the front/rear parking lights were used as flashers and the brake light was moved to the center of the hatch. The older cars used a fancy 2-circuit switch, instead of the relays, though.

[D35 Torpedo]

8 hours ago, Ivan_B said:

 

The above animated illustrations are actually with the parking-lights on. The front will always flash, no matter if the parking lights are on or off. The rear will also always flash the brake light circuit (the higher brightness one) no matter what you do. If the brakes are applied while turning, only one side brake light will activate. The other side will be flashing.

I was considering hooking up the flasher to the rear parking lights (instead of the brakes) as well, but decided against that. I figured that most of the time I'll also be braking while turning, and applying the bright brakes will "block" the less bright parking light from being visible, so no one will notice that I am also flashing. An operating flasher, on the other hand, also attracts other motorists' attention, just like the brake light. So I believe that flashing the brake light is preferred over the parking light.

 

I believe that this scheme is very similar to the OEM configuration of some later vehicles, where the front/rear parking lights were used as flashers and the brake light was moved to the center of the hatch. The older cars used a fancy 2-circuit switch, instead of the relays, though.

So the front is a single filament? The correct way is for the signal and brake to be on the brighter circuit.

[DJK]

Not being critical, but a Signal Stat 900 would have been a lot easier plus you would have 4 way function also.

[Ivan_B]

8 hours ago, D35 Torpedo said:

So the front is a single filament?

Yes, I did not do anything with the factory wiring. Front is just a single circuit LED now

 

2 hours ago, DJK said:

Signal Stat 900 would have been a lot easier plus you would have 4 way function also.

Well, this is just a multi-function turn-signal switch (performs the same as my toggle + 4 way). If you install it with some aftermarket light-bulbs (4 additional bulbs), then yes, maybe. How would I wire it into my existing system, though, to operate the OEM bulbs? ?

Edited September 3, 2023 by Ivan_B

[Sam Buchanan]

3 hours ago, Ivan_B said:

Yes, I did not do anything with the factory wiring. Front is just a single circuit LED now

 

Well, this is just a multi-function turn-signal switch (performs the same as my toggle + 4 way). If you install it with some aftermarket light-bulbs (4 additional bulbs), then yes, maybe. How would I wire it into my existing system, though, to operate the OEM bulbs? ?

 

It is actually a quite simple installation. The key to getting full functionality is to adapt the stock light fixtures to dual filament bulbs. This is easily done with these pigtail adapters:

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/283429109868?hash=item41fdb1006c:g:7CkAAOSwV0NbCIOL&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA0HgtlcEDd03CCb35P8AcfPD0l75EIPot8TBuNzMpFZetvJohSU5wqrVKG2SNannijZA%2BXyByfxNiyYRG1AhIlWO3Q%2FoLB2ftHanrlsx4TCx1pw8J%2F0wfvdFzaZF7lxGylqSMykPrETYG3L0LY9PCTW%2BYWN%2BKLoneIao5DUXRInIfqNjAZgWDId%2Bbpu7L6CNRkzGKpyqt0Iu6iPwreUsB%2F2jbcvmyAW5xDfvWyQIQgeQlnaoEasTuqasLiNcwRT3k0urLFgrUHfCrQVQdEzo3wxA%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR5T-9MDLYg

 

 

 

Here is the Signal Stat switch that includes ALL wiring needed except for the flasher unit:

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-7-Wire-Turn-Signal-Switch-Signal-Stat-900/143096919345?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649

 

Just connect wire A to wire B.......no relays or additional switches needed....very simple. This gives you the same functionality as modern cars using the stock light fixtures.

 

 

 

Edited September 3, 2023 by Sam Buchanan

[Ivan_B]

I see, so this set simply allows you to convert your system to an later type with the fancy switch and no relays, I was referring to. Also, it looks like you do need to convert the front lights to a dual filament and run a separate cable to each brake light for it to operate, right? I don't know, it looks like what I did is more simple, since you do not need to modify anything on the car. Moreover, I really don't like those aftermarket column switches. They don't fit into the interior very well. I did find a good looking column switch from the 40-50s, on e-bay, made in Canada. But it was for sale for like $200, so I did not get it

 

[Sam Buchanan]

1 minute ago, Ivan_B said:

I see, so this set simply allows you to convert your system to an later type with the fancy switch and no relays, I was referring to. Also, it looks like you do need to convert the front lights to a dual filament and run a separate cable to each brake light for it to operate, right? I don't know, it looks like what I did is more simple, since you do not need to modify anything on the car. Moreover, I really don't like those aftermarket column switches. They don't fit into the interior very well. I did find a good looking column switch from the 40-50s, on e-bay, made in Canada. But it was for sale for like $200, so I did not get it

 

 

Good to see you are pleased with your installation. 

[Ivan_B]

As advertised, here is the specific technical information and wiring diagram

If you know how to do this, you don't need to read all this and can just scroll down to the last illustration for the complete diagram as applicable to a 1940 P10. If you are not very familiar with automotive wiring, I am offering a bit more information that could be useful if someone is interested in making a similar setup.

 

Our main objective, here, is to use OEM lighting, without any modifications what so ever (besides disconnecting a couple of cables), so we'll use relays because it seems to be the most convenient way to do what we want, I think. You can either keep the OEM incandescent bulbs, or switch to LEDs. If you switch to LEDs, you'll need to use a LED compatible flasher.

 

We need to flash existing parking/brake lights. Since they are already connected to an existing parking/brake lights circuit, we will use a 5-pin relay to switch the bulb between operating with their respective OEM circuit, and our new flasher circuit when necessary. The automotive relay is a simple switch operated by electrical current. Here is a generic 5-pin relay:

Contacts 85 and 86 are connected to a magnetic coil, which operates the "switch" inside the relay, once the power is supplied. The 5-pin relay has 3 contacts for its switch: 30, 87, and 87A. 30 and 87 are connected by default when the relay is not engaged (no power supplied to the coil). Once the relay is engaged (power supplied to the coil) the relay switches pin 30 to pin 87A and continues to hold the switch in this position as long as the relay is engaged. The basic principle, here, is that we can use this relay to switch a light bulb (pin 30) between working of its original circuit (brake/parking light) (pin 87) to the new flasher circuit we'll install (pin 87A).

 

Below is a complete basic diagram of how this looks. This scheme is for a 6 volt positive ground, but it will work exactly the same with either voltage and ground. You just need to use the correct relays (6 vs. 12 volts, there are no positive/negative relays) and correct flasher (6 vs. 12 volts, LED/incandescent).

This basic scheme can be used to flash anything we want. We just need to find a place to disconnect the OEM circuit to the applicable bulb, somewhere, to re-connect it through our relay (dotted line). Once we pull the flasher switch, it supplies the power to the relay and the relay switches the bulb from the OEM circuit to the flasher circuit. For turn signals, you will need to use at least 2 relays (left and right). I used 4 relays (one for each bulb) because it was easier to integrate it into my existing wiring this way.

 

Here is the complete diagram of how everything was connected:

The scheme should be self-explanatory. Two relays for the front lights are mounted under the hood, two for the real - in the trunk. The flasher and switch are located under the dash. The red "X" marks is where the OEM circuit is disconnected and re-connected through the relays.

 

Below is the complete list of parts I used (excluding 16 gauge wire, harness tape, connectors, and shrink tubing).

LED light bulbs:

front 68574 (1129 analog), I used the amber ones, although the OEM are natural

rear 68465 (1158 analog)

I just looked for the brightest LEDs available; you can use any bulbs you like, just make sure that they fit your existing lights, or keep the OEM ones.

 

Flasher: 84787. This one is labeled as 6 volt positive ground. I've no idea what would happen if I use a negative ground instead... The voltage is obviously important, though. If you use LEDs, make sure that the flasher is LED-compatible. Otherwise, you can use any generic flasher from the auto parts store. Some flashers have just 2 pins, some more. All of these will work the same. The extra pins are usually for a separate ground and a pilot light, if you want one. Some flashers also make the beeping noise. The one I used just ticks while in use.

Note: the above flasher I ordered from LEDLight.com turned out to be defective (it would work fine of a 4 AAA battery pack, but would not flash with the car battery). After spending countless hours trying to figure out why the flasher is not working, I bought exactly the same flasher on Amazon. LEDLight refused my request for a refund because I bought it 4 month ago, so here am I, giving them bad rep ?

 

Switch: Pollak 34593LQ, this is a D.P.D.T. On-Off-On switch, which can operate two different circuits at the same time. I am just using half of the pins for a single-circuit operation. Any toggle On-Off-On switch will do. I bought this one because of the long lever.

 

Relays: generic 6 volt 5-pin relays from Amazon. If your car is 12 volts, you'll use the 12 volt ones.

This is it.

[DJK]

18 hours ago, Sam Buchanan said:

 

It is actually a quite simple installation. The key to getting full functionality is to adapt the stock light fixtures to dual filament bulbs. This is easily done with these pigtail adapters:

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/283429109868?hash=item41fdb1006c:g:7CkAAOSwV0NbCIOL&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA0HgtlcEDd03CCb35P8AcfPD0l75EIPot8TBuNzMpFZetvJohSU5wqrVKG2SNannijZA%2BXyByfxNiyYRG1AhIlWO3Q%2FoLB2ftHanrlsx4TCx1pw8J%2F0wfvdFzaZF7lxGylqSMykPrETYG3L0LY9PCTW%2BYWN%2BKLoneIao5DUXRInIfqNjAZgWDId%2Bbpu7L6CNRkzGKpyqt0Iu6iPwreUsB%2F2jbcvmyAW5xDfvWyQIQgeQlnaoEasTuqasLiNcwRT3k0urLFgrUHfCrQVQdEzo3wxA%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR5T-9MDLYg

 

 

 

Here is the Signal Stat switch that includes ALL wiring needed except for the flasher unit:

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-7-Wire-Turn-Signal-Switch-Signal-Stat-900/143096919345?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649

 

Just connect wire A to wire B.......no relays or additional switches needed....very simple. This gives you the same functionality as modern cars using the stock light fixtures.

 

 

 

Thanks Sam.