JaberJaw Posted July 27, 2023 Report Share Posted July 27, 2023 (edited) Good Day Everybody. Can anybody provide a good company to buy an engine rebuild kit for a 1939 Plymouth P8 Deluxe with the 201? I'm finding everything for the 218 and the 230 but the kit for the 201 seems hard to locate. I may need the kit that's just rings and seals or I may need the exclusive kit that includes pistons and everything once I get it back from the engine rebuilder to find out what I need but a reliable company or website for the kit would be very helpful if anybody is aware of where I should look. I found one at Kanter Auto but just trying to compare prices. The one attached below is the exclusive kit and I may only need the intermediate one. Any information would be helpful ✌️?? https://www.kanter.com/cart.html#!year%3D1939||make%3DPLYMOUTH||model%3DP8 DELUXE Edited July 27, 2023 by JaberJaw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaberJaw Posted July 27, 2023 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2023 Silly question of the day. If I'm doing a rebuild am I able to use the 218 engine rebuild kit for the 201 and after being rebuilt it would be a 218? Just getting familiar with these 23-in blocks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerJon Posted July 27, 2023 Report Share Posted July 27, 2023 I would do whatever I could to avoid spending any money with Kanter. 90% of their stuff is China junk, available from other vendors, but more expensive. If you like paying extra, they will sweeten the deal by doing their absolute best to provide you terrible customer service and lots of arrogant banter! Have you called Terrel machine? Or looked at https://www.robertsmotorparts.com Or https://www.oldmoparts.com Or https://egge.com For everything that interchanges with 217/230 (gaskets, water pump, etc) Are you trying to keep car all original? It may be easier to keep an eye out for a cheap 217/230 core and have that built. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaberJaw Posted July 27, 2023 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2023 Extend you what it was just proven to me after an email that Kanter lacks in the customer service department. I have the 201 minute right now but it needs to be rebuilt and I would like to keep it original but if I can pump it up to a 218 with my 201 block I didn't know if that was possible Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaberJaw Posted July 27, 2023 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2023 This is the kit that I found from Clegg and my engine rebuilder was talking about possibly boring it out and if he did would it now become a 218 with this kit? I figured I might as well go for a complete rebuild but I'm not sure what's available for the 23-inch block? I'm still learning my 39 but I would like to get the best bang for my buck and it's hard to find another block to start over with here in Canada where I am because shipping is a bitch from anywhere https://www.cleggengine.com/engine-rebuild-kits/chrysler-l-6-217-8-218-cid-master-engine-rebuild-kit-1937-1954.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithb7 Posted July 28, 2023 Report Share Posted July 28, 2023 (edited) From what I have seen 201 has a light crank compared to a 218. The crank journal diameters can be light and weak. The early 218 had 1.937" rods, 2.250 mains. The later 218 had 2.0620 rod and 2.50" mains. I suspect for reliability they upsized the crank size. 201 bore/stroke = 3 ⅛" x 4 ⅜ 6.70:1 compression ratio 218 bore/stroke = 3 ¼" x 4 ⅜" 6.80:1 compression ratio In my experience, avoid the self proclaimed MoparPro. Edited July 28, 2023 by keithb7 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaberJaw Posted July 28, 2023 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2023 (edited) 16 minutes ago, keithb7 said: From what I have seen 201 has a light crank compared to a 218. The crank journal diameters can be light and weak. The early 218 had 1.937" rods, 2.250 mains. The later 218 had 2.0620 rod and 2.50" mains. I suspect for reliability they upsized the crank size. 201 bore/stroke = 3 ⅛" x 4 ⅜ 6.70:1 compression ratio 218 bore/stroke = 3 ¼" x 4 ⅜" 6.80:1 compression ratio In my experience, avoid the self proclaimed MoparPro. I apologize for my confusion and I appreciate the communication so with my 201 block would I be able to bore it out to the 218 and keep my crankshaft without going that deep into it or should I just try to find a rebuild kit for the 201? Clegg's seems to have a few options for the 218s but nothing for the 201. I may have to buy it everything individually if I want to keep the 201. Can I bore get out to a 218 while keeping my crankshaft? Edited July 28, 2023 by JaberJaw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solution keithb7 Posted July 28, 2023 Solution Report Share Posted July 28, 2023 (edited) You could. Just be mindful of the crank. No bogging down in 3 rd gear on a steep hill with the throttle floored. No oval lap dirt racing or towing a 23 ft RV trailer. Then you’ll be fine. Edited July 28, 2023 by keithb7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerJon Posted July 28, 2023 Report Share Posted July 28, 2023 I am not well read on the 201, but had heard that it has smaller rod journals. That means the 217 kit you found would need to be supplemented with the correct rod bearings. Also .125" (1/8") is a BIG overbore. Even if some 201 blocks have enough meat to take it, the chances of a shifted core ruining your day are significant. I would have the bores sonic checked first, and plan on using a Hone Plate. Have you torn your engine down? Perhaps you could get away with a hone and re-ring, fresh bearings and seals? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaberJaw Posted July 28, 2023 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2023 5 minutes ago, keithb7 said: You could. Just be mindful of the crank. No bogging down in 3 rd gear on a steep hill with the throttle floored. No oval lap dirt racing or towing a 23 ft RV trailer. Then you’ll be fine. Lol. It actually has a trailer hitch and Towed a 14-ft trailer in the past. Of course I'll have to talk to my engine rebuilder and see what he wants to do after inspection Just curious about complete rebuild kits from reputable companies✌️?? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaberJaw Posted July 28, 2023 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2023 3 minutes ago, FarmerJon said: I am not well read on the 201, but had heard that it has smaller rod journals. That means the 217 kit you found would need to be supplemented with the correct rod bearings. Also .125" (1/8") is a BIG overbore. Even if some 201 blocks have enough meat to take it, the chances of a shifted core ruining your day are significant. I would have the bores sonic checked first, and plan on using a Hone Plate. Have you torn your engine down? Perhaps you could get away with a hone and re-ring, fresh bearings and seals? I just realized that it had to be rebuilt yesterday to do in the head gasket complete properly and buttoned it up we have 55 compression on number one and it did not jump up after I put some oil in it and 80 lb on the rest so my assumption would be that number one guides or seats would be bad so hopefully it would just be the rings, seats and guides but if the kit comes with extra I wouldn't mind going up to a 218 if possible without many problems. With it being have a 201 23-in block everything I'm finding is for the 25 inch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg g Posted July 28, 2023 Report Share Posted July 28, 2023 (edited) I had good luck dealing with Egge for pistons and rings, Terrell,( bearings, timing gears and chain] some pieces from Robert's motor parts.sealsand gasketsfrom NAPA. Other parts like welsh plugs, hea head bolts ( Pioneer) and other misc pieces the machine shop sourced. This was 20 years ago. Cherry picking pieces worked better than looking for a kit. If you want a 218, I would look for a 218 to rebuild unless you are going for original equipment judging points. I'm not studied in 201s you mentioned Canada. How long is your block? 23 1/2 or 25? Looks like we are typing simultaneously. Wherever you inCanada? I have a ran when pulled 46 218 looking for a new home. Located in Central NY. Compression I. The low 90s 35 pai oil pressure, a bit of smoke at startup and moderate blow by will need pistons and rings going forward but I was driving it regularly up to pulling it. From your location you are about three hours west. Edited July 28, 2023 by greg g 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaberJaw Posted July 28, 2023 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2023 I apologize the answer to your question is no I haven't torn it down yet I have to yank it and then bring it to the builder he would realize what's wrong and give me a parts list and then I would supply the parts and he would finish the rebuild. I actually got a really good price through a hot rod friend with Precision here in Niagara Ontario Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaberJaw Posted July 28, 2023 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2023 3 minutes ago, greg g said: I had good luck dealing with Egge for pistons and rings, Terrell,( bearings, timing gears and chain] some pieces from Robert's motor parts.sealsand gasketsfrom NAPA. Other parts like welsh plugs, hea head bolts ( Pioneer) and other misc pieces the machine shop sourced. This was 20 years ago. Cherry picking pieces worked better than looking for a kit. If you want a 218, I would look for a 218 to rebuild unless you are going for original equipment judging points. I'm not studied in 201s you mentioned Canada. How long is your block? 23 1/2 or 25? It's a 23-in block and it's not Canadian made it came from Virginia. I'm hoping a stated previous from one of the members that it may just need rings seals and bearings but of course I won't know until the engine builder and has a good look at it. I have to pull the engine which will be a job because of my situation with only working in the driveway and our Canadian Winters come quick. He would probably have it all winter long because he's backed up but I don't mind because of his reputation and the quote that he gave me is very reasonable. If he decides that it has to be borwd out then I'm looking at new Pistons etc which opens a larger can of worms. I'm hoping for good luck with the engine rebuilder but I'm just getting prepared for the worst. I could cherry pick the parts individually but it would be hard and I don't want to mess up to configuration by ordering the wrong dimensions on anything. That rebuilt kit from Kanter has everything I need for a fairly good price but again as stated before by another member that it is products from China. I'm looking at eBay but most of them are for the 218/23-in block Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desoto1939 Posted July 28, 2023 Report Share Posted July 28, 2023 If you are close to Chatham Ontarios this weekend they are having the National Desoto convention and Car show. Might think about driving over to talk to some of the car owners in regards to getting parts. The Desoto 6 had the bigger 25 inch block vs the 23 inch block that you have but might find someone that can answere your questions. Rich Hartung 1939 Desoto owner 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg g Posted July 28, 2023 Report Share Posted July 28, 2023 Look at my last post I added stuff about a218 sitting in my garage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg g Posted July 28, 2023 Report Share Posted July 28, 2023 Also a group of 40s Plymouth Owners will be gathering in Grimsby, Ont. in Ontario. Sept 15 thru 17. Will be at the Casablanca Hotel. Still two rooms available if you want to stop by. https://m.facebook.com/p/P15-Picnic-USA-100065060943179/?paipv=0&eav=Afa5hRQ51NAhNWcvLw9C5cKhnbblBORdpBR9B85v8EIIT37BCOhcskwWAKDdDPtwUEc&wtsid=rdr_0A1cRoM7AEz1H7eus&_rdr#!/photo.php?fbid=602586748586685&id=100065060943179&set=a.231428772369153&eav=AfaPMGe1NXQ-vke90Y_Vd5Rd-neCLuqxE04wShLDLh67MEk5XDVrxQFzCNToXa-sHOM&paipv=0&source=48&refid=17&_ft_=encrypted_tracking_data.0AY8JzwrAmXNKgAC8PJ7YG_Sann_G5vI5-VFfaZC2LxJ5_rBDUSgKq0r7mjXlNqNzQcKv--WoqqSFHsB37PavV8kCtQTBfWCV04LivkO9xe6pFUThIAGnyv5dxiP1c2uhDaQ9NSTMLj0OmChOPfKjSgk6R03iT6HmaUD3-BmaRozf7zK4x65XcO_CeqBhgGXLSdCUZDydl97tPUO4EjY3MdbcK70Opko8qHYZsjDMEXqaxKz_8J7INqPEtz2yowL-OvtHUo4AvN__TSvQZqWSqlrMxKQwybytKT_puQKYCafY-Z5VrUBjDxBQ85PHmX_02bauNnmPJ0AxxmEzhiH21DAFbRbaLqnYuWkQTS6l0l70wqPA6-U9Ly4vDQCfLHjb1fwnIyAVB7nPk2wT60zBgUb2amcMdGtJQNmCs__qpDJRGNp4ybrV2Yb7jFrDE1fgl1JjZlzDSrTyFpP4PQe_nvgLjxFzubAVGXfmiIsNY3dN6rhmgBu9eCuRhEIW9G9Xu2qtFry_MVE6NMePHgO5e5Bkos1zqgK2coz3DYvygkAqNiZuJYwk1B8NtiAeO45FRbykFhDx8rPT2Wn4phqGSC3D67RmxHyrv1QwXou41vbUNNb1SaK19q6To6JJ4CauWF4GPjUgDQbDZ_InKnu9SJzo5ysr8YWZXswqI7YxLOqFBrRNJq89CSfD6rvlTxy7v6Z3gSAXOejXGshuujEDsZQTpNwlwouCKY55GRVjagNGntZkeG1hjcAQZMNZ9VR1Qx0e9pjtujx5obkC1-hrQ7hyg5qj1OJ_VM-nDL8fHubXfZAxA-WHmQT-mHha067pCoeXaY2T9BrKd5r5dIPMw3lga3raiH-gtcqr65vCPetJE3u6eNt8GodnY_LEEvkJXr9xHlBDj9z_dW94zkZtx6o4UTRnxCkLd7aeqSn0bGNpIxVDHkt0lZoxCA-50b7oVxH8uz3aMnfYu6vy7WRcR4qaCZDsgLqXhFaOw7GYuFTIxGVHbGXi5UIo_WXChnyEU49m0sl1Wy7gHibX4bLkQRHoEM1PhPZv6m2nYFSyDlyPIozsIhfaNH137xWbcWGSAlAKx4_O3zklEBD6q64MLCydMOXm-eAXWHl3NQ130kqpaDO5MhxrRKCi4lM_7t_Jwk9Dhaczd7snWmJeov9ku4TQ3hkIzmby1DwAbrTiClzy1Z0gAEM4kKySxY9aWdC-0lgb6VsXmcW96FPm-wq0iFQ0xJH52OS1P8RN8dzzRt37miyMNvqffrSC1zRlj-t035QOj__EjYvuM_XvzNkBQUrNhKFtYDXX0e1Z6qCn-VPpGZSyFhkYhZIVQMCtjEb1Jr_Co7eJ1b12rcOGTerix5RuvYOBbTPOv5AVJwIIQ7Jyaapu-iZY-dGNwyBpOi_DMyt_UKvtWlF1DCIiFiNHdCkTh0Oy0y_fC7SH68K3&__tn__=EH-R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaberJaw Posted July 28, 2023 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2023 1 hour ago, desoto1939 said: If you are close to Chatham Ontarios this weekend they are having the National Desoto convention and Car show. Might think about driving over to talk to some of the car owners in regards to getting parts. The Desoto 6 had the bigger 25 inch block vs the 23 inch block that you have but might find someone that can answere your questions. Rich Hartung 1939 Desoto owner Chatham's only about 3 hours away (in Canada we measured distance by hours LOL) it would definitely be worse to visit just to talk to people who are familiar face-to-face. My nickname is JabberJaw so I'm not afraid to ask questions until I get the answers without confusion. Thank you kindly that's a great lead and from what I gathered Dodge and Chrysler were the only ones that had the 23-inch Block in the 201 and the 218 but from what I gather the 230 maybe a 25 in Block? But of course the crank journals would be different so I have to stick to my 201 block and if they decide to bore it out I'll get his opinion on the crankshaft but thank you again for the lead on the show ✌️?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaberJaw Posted July 28, 2023 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2023 1 hour ago, greg g said: Also a group of 40s Plymouth Owners will be gathering in Grimsby, Ont. in Ontario. Sept 15 thru 17. Will be at the Casablanca Hotel. Still two rooms available if you want to stop by. https://m.facebook.com/p/P15-Picnic-USA-100065060943179/?paipv=0&eav=Afa5hRQ51NAhNWcvLw9C5cKhnbblBORdpBR9B85v8EIIT37BCOhcskwWAKDdDPtwUEc&wtsid=rdr_0A1cRoM7AEz1H7eus&_rdr#!/photo.php?fbid=602586748586685&id=100065060943179&set=a.231428772369153&eav=AfaPMGe1NXQ-vke90Y_Vd5Rd-neCLuqxE04wShLDLh67MEk5XDVrxQFzCNToXa-sHOM&paipv=0&source=48&refid=17&_ft_=encrypted_tracking_data.0AY8JzwrAmXNKgAC8PJ7YG_Sann_G5vI5-VFfaZC2LxJ5_rBDUSgKq0r7mjXlNqNzQcKv--WoqqSFHsB37PavV8kCtQTBfWCV04LivkO9xe6pFUThIAGnyv5dxiP1c2uhDaQ9NSTMLj0OmChOPfKjSgk6R03iT6HmaUD3-BmaRozf7zK4x65XcO_CeqBhgGXLSdCUZDydl97tPUO4EjY3MdbcK70Opko8qHYZsjDMEXqaxKz_8J7INqPEtz2yowL-OvtHUo4AvN__TSvQZqWSqlrMxKQwybytKT_puQKYCafY-Z5VrUBjDxBQ85PHmX_02bauNnmPJ0AxxmEzhiH21DAFbRbaLqnYuWkQTS6l0l70wqPA6-U9Ly4vDQCfLHjb1fwnIyAVB7nPk2wT60zBgUb2amcMdGtJQNmCs__qpDJRGNp4ybrV2Yb7jFrDE1fgl1JjZlzDSrTyFpP4PQe_nvgLjxFzubAVGXfmiIsNY3dN6rhmgBu9eCuRhEIW9G9Xu2qtFry_MVE6NMePHgO5e5Bkos1zqgK2coz3DYvygkAqNiZuJYwk1B8NtiAeO45FRbykFhDx8rPT2Wn4phqGSC3D67RmxHyrv1QwXou41vbUNNb1SaK19q6To6JJ4CauWF4GPjUgDQbDZ_InKnu9SJzo5ysr8YWZXswqI7YxLOqFBrRNJq89CSfD6rvlTxy7v6Z3gSAXOejXGshuujEDsZQTpNwlwouCKY55GRVjagNGntZkeG1hjcAQZMNZ9VR1Qx0e9pjtujx5obkC1-hrQ7hyg5qj1OJ_VM-nDL8fHubXfZAxA-WHmQT-mHha067pCoeXaY2T9BrKd5r5dIPMw3lga3raiH-gtcqr65vCPetJE3u6eNt8GodnY_LEEvkJXr9xHlBDj9z_dW94zkZtx6o4UTRnxCkLd7aeqSn0bGNpIxVDHkt0lZoxCA-50b7oVxH8uz3aMnfYu6vy7WRcR4qaCZDsgLqXhFaOw7GYuFTIxGVHbGXi5UIo_WXChnyEU49m0sl1Wy7gHibX4bLkQRHoEM1PhPZv6m2nYFSyDlyPIozsIhfaNH137xWbcWGSAlAKx4_O3zklEBD6q64MLCydMOXm-eAXWHl3NQ130kqpaDO5MhxrRKCi4lM_7t_Jwk9Dhaczd7snWmJeov9ku4TQ3hkIzmby1DwAbrTiClzy1Z0gAEM4kKySxY9aWdC-0lgb6VsXmcW96FPm-wq0iFQ0xJH52OS1P8RN8dzzRt37miyMNvqffrSC1zRlj-t035QOj__EjYvuM_XvzNkBQUrNhKFtYDXX0e1Z6qCn-VPpGZSyFhkYhZIVQMCtjEb1Jr_Co7eJ1b12rcOGTerix5RuvYOBbTPOv5AVJwIIQ7Jyaapu-iZY-dGNwyBpOi_DMyt_UKvtWlF1DCIiFiNHdCkTh0Oy0y_fC7SH68K3&__tn__=EH-R That's fantastic and thank you so kindly. Grimsby's only about 20 minutes away so I will definitely be attending for the whole weekend. That will definitely be the place to go to get leads information or parts ✌️?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaberJaw Posted July 28, 2023 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2023 1 hour ago, greg g said: Look at my last post I added stuff about a218 sitting in my garage. I looked and I can't find your last post Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg g Posted July 28, 2023 Report Share Posted July 28, 2023 Looks like we are typing simultaneously. Where are you inCanada? I have a ran when pulled 46 218 looking for a new home. Located in Central NY. Compression In The low 90s 35 psi oil pressure, a bit of smoke at startup and moderate blow by, will need pistons and rings going forward but I was driving it regularly up to pulling it. From your location you are about three hours west. Edited 3 hours ago by greg g FarmerJon 1 Quote A discussion is an exchange of knowledge an argument is an exchange of ignorance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg g Posted July 28, 2023 Report Share Posted July 28, 2023 For more info send Mark Duggan an email at mark@rdusaclassics.com he will send you the details and put you on the event email list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaberJaw Posted July 28, 2023 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2023 (edited) 11 minutes ago, greg g said: Looks like we are typing simultaneously. Where are you inCanada? I have a ran when pulled 46 218 looking for a new home. Located in Central NY. Compression In The low 90s 35 psi oil pressure, a bit of smoke at startup and moderate blow by, will need pistons and rings going forward but I was driving it regularly up to pulling it. From your location you are about three hours west. Edited 3 hours ago by greg g FarmerJon 1 Quote A discussion is an exchange of knowledge an argument is an exchange of ignorance. Edited July 28, 2023 by JaberJaw I didn't add information Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaberJaw Posted July 28, 2023 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2023 I live in Welland about 5 minutes from Niagara Falls. I would love to have a 218 or even an extra engine but my 201 is going to have to get Pistons rings etc so I'm working on that now. How much are you asking for the 218? And I already contacted about the event list and I'm going to be definitely going all days available and it's so close I'm able to come home to eat and sleep LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg g Posted July 28, 2023 Report Share Posted July 28, 2023 (edited) Send me a private message through this site, will exchange info,price, logistics, etc off the forum. Hope to make your acquaintance in a few weeks. Edited July 28, 2023 by greg g Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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