The Kingpin retaining Pin- Staked? Peened?

['41 Fat Bottom Girl]

This little journey on my front end rebuild brings a couple questions to mind.

Before I start to try removing the retaining Pin for the Kingpin:

Curious, the front side looks staked, and both front and backside of the pins top surfaces aren't smooth, as I'd expect with a typical pin end. Almost look peened (?)

Photos.

I checked (the best I could) the pin diameter with calipers, both sides to see if it might be a taper drive pin, but diameters appear to be the same.

I thought I'd best consult with the experts before I went at it blindly and did damage.

And- Use a press, or dislodge it with a punch and hammer?

 

Thanx Much.

 

 

[Plymouthy Adams]

the pin is shown as a taper,  would not guess the amount of said taper.......the smaller end IS NOT staked, only the larger end....to remove...drive the pin from opposite of the stake.   Good pictures of this in the repair if you have that available...if not maybe someone with a scanner can get that copied and pasted.  Not sure if this will show well but tried to do a photo see inset that shows the taper pin....

['41 Fat Bottom Girl]

Thanx, buddy.

Not a good idea to be beating on the wrong end of a taper pin.

My D series Shop Manual just instructed me to "Remove the pin".

I am really glad I asked.

Best

[Plymouthy Adams]

there is so much difference between the Plymouth manual and the Dodge...I have both, the Dodge book looks like new...my Plymouth book stays by the computer in case I can use it to help here now and then and you can tell it has been handled a bit.  The Plymouth manual has way more details on the average.

Edited April 26, 2023 by Plymouthy Adams

[andyd]

I agree with Plymouthy, use a drift/centre punch that is close to the non staked end in size and a good sized heavy duty hammer, support the spindle/stub axle assembly and give the non staked side of the pin a good wack......check for movement......another wack.....check........wack......check..........etc........lol.........I must admit that I don't remember seeing a lock pin that didn't show part of the taper to make it easy to decided what side to wack from..........interesting..............andyd

['41 Fat Bottom Girl]

Thanx, fellas-

You were right on about driving the pin from opposite the staked side- came apart nicely.

Interesting- my original diameter caliper on both ends of the pin suggesting it was not a tapered drive pin ended up being correct.

Getting it out, the pin mics the same diameter both ends- the locking taper is provided by a wedge cut along the side of the pin.

That's why what appears to be a constant diameter pin but with only one end staked.

Ingenious, really- I'd bet putting a wedge cut on the pin side is less cost than a taper pin and avoids the big challenge- or impossibility- of providing tapered hole bores to accept it. Provides a tight lock on the Kingpin with easy dimensional control of the diameters. Nice!

 

 

[Plymouthy Adams]

similar manner a bicycle crank lever is set on the crank pin......look close at the picture inset above....you see this taper is referencing the FLAT..

[D35 Torpedo]

On 4/26/2023 at 7:03 AM, '41 Fat Bottom Girl said:

Thanx, fellas-

You were right on about driving the pin from opposite the staked side- came apart nicely.

Interesting- my original diameter caliper on both ends of the pin suggesting it was not a tapered drive pin ended up being correct.

Getting it out, the pin mics the same diameter both ends- the locking taper is provided by a wedge cut along the side of the pin.

That's why what appears to be a constant diameter pin but with only one end staked.

Ingenious, really- I'd bet putting a wedge cut on the pin side is less cost than a taper pin and avoids the big challenge- or impossibility- of providing tapered hole bores to accept it. Provides a tight lock on the Kingpin with easy dimensional control of the diameters. Nice!

 

 

I'm doing the same thing right now. I think a tapered hole is easier then a broached hole. I didn't see any staking, but could've easily missed it through the dirt. I just hit it good, saw nothing happened, then went to the other side and honked on it till it came out. I'm assuming the king pin needs to be pressed out. Edit I see what the taper is about, good idea

Edited April 30, 2023 by D35 Torpedo

['41 Fat Bottom Girl]

I was able to get the kingpin out by driving it from the top with a drift. It took a bit of positioning in my big vice so it was supported by the mid-section, but after I got that held solid, repeated whack with a hammer broke it free.

The next challenge was getting the old bronze bushings out. I may have to have help pressing new ones in; it's an awkward part for my small press to work easily. But to get things apart for cleanup, I used this old trick-carefully did a hacksaw blade cut along the inside of a bushing and through the bushing wall thickness, taking care not to score the casting. and then using a very small cold chisel to collapse it- and out they go.

Waiting for my Kingpin kit, then will find out more about pressing in the new bushings.

Good Luck

[D35 Torpedo]

8 hours ago, '41 Fat Bottom Girl said:

I was able to get the kingpin out by driving it from the top with a drift. It took a bit of positioning in my big vice so it was supported by the mid-section, but after I got that held solid, repeated whack with a hammer broke it free.

The next challenge was getting the old bronze bushings out. I may have to have help pressing new ones in; it's an awkward part for my small press to work easily. But to get things apart for cleanup, I used this old trick-carefully did a hacksaw blade cut along the inside of a bushing and through the bushing wall thickness, taking care not to score the casting. and then using a very small cold chisel to collapse it- and out they go.

Waiting for my Kingpin kit, then will find out more about pressing in the new bushings.

Good Luck

Good info. I ordered my kit months ago. Been sitting on it stewing away. I have lower control arms, coils, shackles and rear leafs blasted, painted and rebushed. Would be nice to get the upper control arms and knuckles finished this weekend. I'll let you know how it goes.

['41 Fat Bottom Girl]

Plymouthy,

A bicycle crank- yes! that's where I have seen that wedge pin before! That did not come to mind.

If I recall, the wedge cut on a bike crank pin is a bit more pronounced than on this Kingpin pin.

Now I can put that question in my mind to rest.

Thanx!

[D35 Torpedo]

'41 Fat Bottom Girl,

 

What does you king pins bushings look like? I pulled one apart and it had a torrington needle bearing in the top, bushing in the bottom. My king pin kit is all bushings...so I'm stuck. Either I wait, and source some needle bearings, or a send it with one new bushing and pin.

[andyd]

Admittedly all I have pulled apart have been Oz Plymouth/Dodge front ends that have all had bushings........my understanding was that the needle roller king pins were only in USA made DeSoto/Chrysler cars..........curious now to learn more...........andyd 

[D35 Torpedo]

9 hours ago, andyd said:

Admittedly all I have pulled apart have been Oz Plymouth/Dodge front ends that have all had bushings........my understanding was that the needle roller king pins were only in USA made DeSoto/Chrysler cars..........curious now to learn more...........andyd 

My parts book is saying Canadian built cars had bearings pn 681378

 

['41 Fat Bottom Girl]

Hi,

Here is my kingpin kit:

Kingpins, bushings, thrust bearings and shims, and new pins.

So, all sleeve bushings. No needles.

[DJ194950]

Many car makers and parts suppliers have called/label bushings as bearings over the years.   They serve the same function.

 

Needle bearings, roller bearings, and on and on as to types of Bearings!  Load carriers that allow for movement is my take.  ?

 

Anyway, up to you to choose, I am just sayings others definitions vary. 

 

DJ

[D35 Torpedo]

On 4/29/2023 at 4:46 PM, DJ194950 said:

Many car makers and parts suppliers have called/label bushings as bearings over the years.   They serve the same function.

 

Needle bearings, roller bearings, and on and on as to types of Bearings!  Load carriers that allow for movement is my take.  ?

 

Anyway, up to you to choose, I am just sayings others definitions vary. 

 

DJ

The parts book specifically says bushing or bearing. I think everyone knows the difference. Lets not get caught up in semantics.

[Saskwatch]

Semantics , semantics, ……Hmmmm  I will bet you a worn out fan belt that’s the first time that word has been used on this forum   ?

[Plymouthy Adams]

2 hours ago, Saskwatch said:

Semantics , semantics, ……Hmmmm  I will bet you a worn out fan belt that’s the first time that word has been used on this forum   ?

Current version of the forum, semantic(s) was used 2-7-2007 and you can keep your worn fan belt, search showed 21 uses of the word.   Now back to bed, got a car to drive to look at in the morning.